AMD quad cores: the whole story unfolded

[werty316]

Can't wait to see these bads boys in action.
The QC parts are rumoured to be coming in Q2/07, Q4/07 and Q1/08, and are said to be both the old and the new cores. Some people call the Q2 part K8L, others call the Q4/Q1 parts the same, but since AMD has no product called K8L, that is kind of speculative.

So, which story is right, and what timetable is it on? The short version is that all QC parts are the new core, Rev H, any stories to the contrary, including mine, are wrong. That said, the timelines, all three of them, are correct. There are two new cores coming from AMD, and three times for introductions.

The first one, set for Q2/07 is code named Barcelona, and it is a Rev H cored quad capable part with HT2.0. It will come in all power levels, including 68W and the SE 120W, but mainstream parts should be 95W. Barcelona cores will fit into existing infrastructure with no modifications necessary providing the boards and chipsets meet all the current specs.

So, what about Q4/07 and Q1/08? Well, that is the interesting part, it is the other new core for the year. The Q4/07 part is called Budapest, and it is the Barcelona core with HT3.0 in 12xx Opteron and A64 guise. The core should be done well within the alloted time frames, but its introduction may be delayed due chipset availability. Basically, this is the first major update to HT, and people may miss windows.

The next major part is called Shanghai, it is simply the 22xx and 82xx version of Budapest. It is being delayed to Q1/08, possibly Q2 because of the aforementioned chipset availability and likely increased validation needs. Lets just say you should see Shanghai in 1H/08.
Read the entire article here: http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=34433

[DragonMaster]

but its introduction may be delayed due chipset availability. Basically, this is the first major update to HT, and people may miss windows.

So the current AM2 mobos will last much less time that 939?
I'm still confused about what the big difference will be...

[werty316]

AM2 was just a jump into DDR2.The AM2 socket is suppose to have a very short lifespan.

[DragonMaster]

The AM2 socket is suppose to have a very short lifespan.

It's the first time that I hear this. I'm glad that I didn't throw out my 939 mobo when I didn't know if I was going with AM2 or 939.

[werty316]

Going from S939 to AM2 is a waste of cash since you don't get any performance improvements.

AM2 is just S939 with a DDR2 controller.

Wait and see how the AM3/K8L works out.

[DragonMaster]

Wait and see how the AM3/K8L works out.
If I have enough money, I can't buy 2GB of RAM for my X2 4400.

[werty316]

If I have enough money, I can't buy 2GB of RAM for my X2 4400.
I think you meant if you have enough money you can buy 2GB of RAM...?

[DragonMaster]

I mean that I can't even buy RAM so I don't think I'll have enough $$$ to upgrade to AM3.

[werty316]

Oh well anyhow the AM3 is a long ways away but by that time I think DDR3 will be used.

[Xero (1)ne]

but isnt am3 chips backwards compatible with am2 sockets?
and teh am2 chips cant be used in a am3 socket right?

if the first one is right, will it still use ddr2 or ddr3?

[DragonMaster]

but isnt am3 chips backwards compatible with am2 sockets?
and teh am2 chips cant be used in a am3 socket right?

if the first one is right, will it still use ddr2 or ddr3?

Who knows, everyone tells that AM3 si going to work in AM2 sockets, but it's not even next to be released.

[Kougar]

Here's how it works. :)

DDR3 is what requires the new pinouts. Exactly like switching from DDR to DDR2 required a change in pinouts from socket939 to Socket AM2.

AM2 only uses DDR2. AM3 only uses DDR3. ;)

So only AM3 chips will work in AM3 sockets. But AM3 chips are compatible with DDR2 memory, and are still pin compatible with AM2 sockets, so AM3 chips can also be plugged into AM2 sockets.

[vfrex]

^ well said.


Werty, I don't know what your sources are (can you provide them?). AMD has been stating backwards compatibility to AM2 for their next-gen processors since the beginning.

[werty316]

All I said was the AM3 will use DDR3, I never mentioned anything about it being backwards compatibility with AM2/DDR2. Go search up AM3 if you want more info or give this (http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=3169) a read ;)

[vfrex]

AM2 was just a jump into DDR2.The AM2 socket is suppose to have a very short lifespan.

Its lifespan is expanded a bit if AMD's next generation processors will be compatible with it, no?


edit> The more I think about it, the more it seems like AMD's switch to AM2 was required of them rather than being a choice. I doubt DDR manufacturers could justify staying open with Intel switching completely over, and AMD couldn't risk selling DDR using processors when the memory is becoming rare and expensive. I wonder if the addition of the DDR2 IMC is going to hurt the performance of their next-gen processors at a time when they really need to come out with something good.

[DragonMaster]

Werty, I don't know what your sources are (can you provide them?). AMD has been stating backwards compatibility to AM2 for their next-gen processors since the beginning.

Just google AM3.

Maybe they should include a DDR2 controller in the forst AM3 and drop it after some time?

[GIBSON]

Just google AM3.

Maybe they should include a DDR2 controller in the forst AM3 and drop it after some time?
I bet things aren't as easy as that!

[DragonMaster]

I bet things aren't as easy as that!

Actually, when you look for AM3, all they say is that it will also have a DDR2 controller. What I was thinking is that they could remove it after some time to reduce the number of transistors, cost, and heat.

[vfrex]

Dragonmaster, your posts seem to assume that the end of the sale of AM2 motherboards is equivalent to the end of the life of said boards. That isn't the case, since the new generation processors will be compatible with the AM2 motherboards. Going from 939->AM2 wouldn't have been a waste of money since you could have still jumped to the next processor generation with it. DDR3 memory won't be cheap early on...

[DragonMaster]

I was just thinking that in a few years, when AM3 will not be something new anymore, they could throw out the DDR2 and AM2 compatibility for more transistors or new features.

[werty316]

Its better making a comletely new processor line than trying to improve current CPUs. You can only do so much with what you have. Just look at how the Core2Duo made a difference. I don't think Intel couldn't have pulled that off if they tried to improve current CPUs. Technology has to move forward at some point.

Using an AM3 CPU in an AM2 board doesn't mean AM2 isn't dead. I mean you would be using an AM3 CPU and not an AM2 CPU.

Unless the AM3 CPUs show a big improvment over AM2 CPUs why use an AM3 CPU in an AM2 board? Cost I guess.

You have to use what is the norm hence the reason why AMD switched to DDR2. DDR1 can only go so far with clock speeds.

Read more of AMD's quadcore here (http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTE3NCwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==).

[vfrex]

Using an AM3 CPU in an AM2 board doesn't mean AM2 isn't dead. I mean you would be using an AM3 CPU and not an AM2 CPU.

The point is that going with AM2 now isn't a waste of money since DDR2 and the AM2 motherboard will last into the next generation of AMD processors.

Unless the AM3 CPUs show a big improvment over AM2 CPUs why use an AM3 CPU in an AM2 board? Cost I guess.

It is the next generation processor from AMD. One would presume that it would offer some significant improvements in the architecture, performance, performance per watt, etc. as you suggest in your first paragraph. I'm sure one would see some gains from an AM3 processor in an AM2 motherboard over an AM2 processor in an AM2 motherboard...

[werty316]

Going from S939 to AM2 waste of money and by the time AM3 is out, which supports DDR3, why would you use an AM2 board?

Example: I have a S939 rig and I am not buying AM2 ever so If I swtich to an AM3 system why would I buy an AM2 board that supports DDR2 when the AM3 uses DDR3? I would buy a DDR3 board and DDR3 to match.

[vfrex]

DDR3 will be expensive early on. Use DDR2 in the first generation of AMD DDR3 chips...

[werty316]

Think of it this way then once DDR3 becomes the norm DDR2 price will increase just like DDR1 prices increase when DDR2 became the norm to influence users to jump into getting a DDR2 computer.

[DragonMaster]

Think of it this way then once DDR3 becomes the norm DDR2 price will increase just like DDR1 prices increase when DDR2 became the norm to influence users to jump into getting a DDR2 computer.

I see the price of the Corsair TwinX2048-4400Pro increasing every weeks. It was $350 when I wanted to buy it, now over $400. At the same time, DDR3 was around for a while.

DDR3 will be expensive early on. Use DDR2 in the first generation of AMD DDR3 chips...
He could wait a bit of time, an Athlon XP 2000 512MB GF4 Ti4200 computer still can run most games with just a bit of lag.

[THRASHER2]

I can't wait to see these BAD BOYZ F@H!!!!!!

[DragonMaster]

Well, you still need to know if the architecture is going to improve things a lot first!

[werty316]

I think he meant that because its a quadcore CPU, hence it has four cores, that it can fold four WUs at the same time using the console version ;)

[THRASHER2]

I think he meant that because its a quadcore CPU it can fold four WUs at at the same time hence four cores.
WINNNNER

Why buy two PC's with Dual Cores when you could buy one Quad Core :grin:

F@H ON!

[DragonMaster]

WINNNNER
Why buy two PC's with Dual Cores when you could buy one Quad Core
That's a good reason.