Windows Desktop FROZEN when quitting games

[zachig]

Hi guys and xfxsupport!!! :grin:

I'm not sure whether this is the right place to post my question and whether the problem I'll describe is related to my Video Cards, but I'll be glad to hear your opinion. :roll:

As most of you already know, I've just installed my TWO XFX 7900GT 470M Video Cards in which I've won here at Bjorn3D.

I also had a H.D crash recently so I recently made a clean install of windows before installig the new cards.

I'm using the cards in SLI configuration for the past 2 days and just TODAY I've installed a few games to test the cards.

I must say that the Cards perform flawlessly and games run smoothly and without any lags and/or artifacts. I've also checked them with 3DMark06 and everything is just fine. BUT......

And there is a big BUT......

I've noticed that sometimes after playing a while, when I quit the game (and it can be any of the games I've installed: Prince of Persia: The two thrones, El Matador, Broken Sword 4, Reservoir Dogs), Windows Desktop FREEZES and I can't do a thing but REBOOT. :(

Now...if during gameplay, I switch to the Desktop and everthing is OK, but it ONLY happens when I QUIT A GAME...:confused: and it also doesn't happen ALL the time, but MOST of the time...:confused:

I'm really confused and don't know what to do, and I'm afraid it's related to the cards overheating.:???:

The cards are NOT overclocked, but I'm using the STOCK coolers and on MAXIMUM LOAD one of the cards is reaching 74C and the other one around 70C (I'm running most of the games in 1680x1050 resolution with everything set on "HIGH", so I guess that's why I reach these temps...)

Now, I have the latest 91.47 Nvidia drivers and I've already applied the latest Video Cards BIOS fix/update so I can control the fans speed.

After I faced the "freezing" problem, I changed the "Performance 3D" fan speed from 65% to 100% and now IT SEEMS to happen (the freezing) LESS frequently, so I'm even more convinced it is related to overheating.

So...what do you think? Have anyone experienced the same/similar problems?

I'll appreciate your help, as it's really disturbing to REBOOT almost everytime I quit a game...and beside that...I'm afraid of damaging the cards...:???:

Waiting for your help,

Thanks,

zachig.

EDIT:

I've just opened as well a "Support Ticket" #66450 regarding my problem.

[Das Capitolin]

Although I can see where you might connect this to the video cards, it seems as though your system memory might not be refreshing properly upon program closing. Is your CPU or RAM overclocked?

[zachig]

Although I can see where you might connect this to the video cards, it seems as though your system memory might not be refreshing properly upon program closing. Is your CPU or RAM overclocked?

My X2 3800+ CPU is overclocked at 2.4GHz (240x10) instead of 2GHz at stock, but I'm already running the CPU overclocked for almost a year now and I was using my MSI 7800GTX with it without any problems, and I've also checked my CPU for stability using Prime95 and ran Memtest back then...

Do you think it's related? How can I check it? Should I run memtest and/or Prime95??? :confused: :roll:

Thanks for your help...:wink:

[Kougar]

If your system plays the games just fine and has no issues while Alt-Tabbing, then Prime95ing shouldn't do anything for ya. I would still suggest you give memtest a try though, but I also think that is a long shot for the same reasons.

I've run into a problem myself, which might actually help you... Grab this (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=2DA43D38-DB71-4C1B-BC6A-9B6652CD92A3&displaylang=en) and install it, it will install any missing updates to Directx 9.0c. Apparently there are almost monthly changes to DX9.0c, and I've already run into some issues when I didn't update a clean install of XP with all of them.

Other than that... what else is running in the background? You might try shutting down any/all programs you usually leave running while you play your games and see if that makes it go away...

[DragonMaster]

I think that it's related to an old XP installation you restored from a 3 months old backup that went thru many different problems.

[werty316]

Trying playing a game with everything at stock.

Try drivercleaner since some hardware has changed since your last backup.

As DragonMaster mentioned, did you just restore your recent backup or did you do an actual fresh install?

[DragonMaster]

As DragonMaster mentioned, did you just restore your recent backup or did you do an actual fresh install?

Remember when he told that he toasted his HDD, had trouble with his backup utility not supporting SATA and finally got his old Windows back after upgrading the utility?

[zachig]

First of all, thanks for your help guys!!! :grin:

Yeah...I did restore from a backup (using Acronis), which was 3 months old, but contained Windows, Office, Anti-Virus, CD/DVD Burning program and A LOT more ALREADY installled. :wink:

Everything in the image was installed on the same C:\ partition. That's why, when I restored the Data to Partition C:\ I didn't think I'll have any problems.

Anyway, I'll try your advice Kougar and I'll install the DirectX 9 updates.

I've already ran Prime95 for a few hours and gave memtest pass ALL 10 tests one time and ran also test #5 few times and EVERYTHING looks OK.

That's why I was thinking about overheating problem...:roll:

So, what do you think? What should I do next? I reallly DON'T WANT to re-install everything from the beginning using a fresh/clean Windows installation...:confused:

I'll try also to close all applications in the background while gaming and see if it helps...:???:

Thanks again and I'll keep you updated...:wink:

If you can think of something else, I'll be glad to hear. :mrgreen: C'ya

[DragonMaster]

Geez, I have the impression that you would copy every Windows files one by one before even trying to reinstall Windows. This is, IMO, one of the easiest solution to fix problems.

First, if you have a billion XP theme utilities installed, it could be a cause of your problems, then, changing videocards give problems, do you have any overclocking utilities that you already used with your 7800? Are they messing up with your 7900s?

Your hardware looks OK, when Windows crashes like this, it's probably a software/driver problem.

[darkorb]

70 degrees is a fine temp, my 6800 with stock hsf, (crap) and a case with no intake fans, was hitting 85+, so that temp is fine

[DragonMaster]

70 degrees is a fine temp, my 6800 with stock hsf, (crap) and a case with no intake fans, was hitting 85+, so that temp is fine

Yeah, GPUs take much higher temps than CPUs w/o problems. Same for chipsets.

[zachig]

OK guys!!! Here's an UPDATE:

My problems got WORSE, so when restarting Windows I sometimes got a blank screen after the "Windows" Logo, and then...waiting for about 20-25 minutes for Windows to Load, sometimes it did (after 20-25 minutes) and sometimes I've waited for more than an hour and then rebooted again...:confused:

Then...my problems got even WORSE (I don't know how can it be more worse than what I've already experienced...:lol: ) but on one of my reboots, Windows stopped totally to load. :(

I then checked with "Acronis Partioning" application and saw that "Partition E:\" (I have partition C:\ of 45GB, D:\ of 100GB and E: of 100GB) is totally messed up (no "label" and a lot of corrupted files inside, I've also ran "chkdsk" and got A LOT of "orphand" files...:confused: ).

So...I finally ended up in Re-formatting C:,D: and E: and then, I've restored a new Image (that I've made 2 days ago, when everything WAS still OK...the problems started after I've installed some games on drives D: and E: :roll: ).

So...currently everything is back to normal :grin: ... I really don't know what caused my E:\ partition to be messed and corrupted, and I also don't know how it was related (if at all) to the windows problems I had on C:\ partition.

So...I guess I'll just re-install again ALL the games I installed before, and I'll play again and HOPEFULLY, HOPEFULLY...I won't have the same problems.

But, in case I'll have the same (or similar) problems again...that's it, I'll make a clean and fresh Windows installation, I promise...:wink: :mrgreen:

So, what do you think so far? Do you think that the messy/corrupted E:\ partition was affecting somehow the performance of Winodws, installed on my C:\ partition??? :confused: :roll:

I'll keep you updated!!!

Thank you ALL for you help and support!!! :grin:

[DragonMaster]

But, in case I'll have the same (or similar) problems again...that's it, I'll make a clean and fresh Windows installation, I promise...

LOL that's what I thought! You're wasting days trying different solutions instead of just doing a fresh install, which is NOT very long.


So, what do you think so far? Do you think that the messy/corrupted E:\ partition was affecting somehow the performance of Winodws, installed on my C:\ partition???


Probably, cheesy partitions create problems when Windows try to access them. You'll find more problems with the recuperation console. Update your chipset/SATA drivers, it can solve some corruption problems.

[werty316]

Since you got a new HD I don't know why you didn't do a fresh install to save all this hassle in the first place. It doesn't take long to install everything over anyhow.

Why would you install games onto a different partition? You know that'll slow things down. Games should always be installed on the boot partition as well as apps. You could use the other partitions for downloads/docs.

Also why three partitions? Two should be enough.

[zachig]

LOL that's what I thought! You're wasting days trying different solutions instead of just doing a fresh install, which is NOT very long.
Yeah, I know...I guess I'm just VERY stuborn...:lol: I already had on the backed-up image, the whole OS, Office, Anti-Virus, CD/DVD burning programs, overclocking utils, Picture viewers, Anti-Adware/Spyware software and many many more and I didn't have backups for each program individually and that's why I was soooo stuborn not to give up and use the Backup Image.

Since you got a new HD I don't know why you didn't do a fresh install to save all this hassle in the first place. It doesn't take long to install everything over anyhow.
My answer is the same as for DragonMaster...:wink:

Why would you install games onto a different partition? You know that'll slow things down. Games should always be installed on the boot partition as well as apps. You could use the other partitions for downloads/docs.

Also why three partitions? Two should be enough.
That's how I personally prefer it:

Partition C:\ - Only for OS and Most Basic/Important/Unique applications (such as Office, Anti-Virus, CD Burning, etc.) - I've set it to ~40GB

Partition D:\ - for Game/Application Installations - I've set it to ~100GB

Partition E:\ - for Downloads/docs - I've set it to ~100GB

I don't really think that it makes such a big difference in performance if the games are installed on D:\ partition :roll: , though I might be wrong...:???: :wink:

[darkorb]

i just have a 250gb hd in 2 partitions, 10 gb for the hp recovery, and the rest is where everything goes :)

[werty316]

Copying a file from partition to partition is slower than copying a file on the same partition to another directory ;)

It really isn't necessary making a partition for games/apps unless you are worried about fragmentation which should be a problem really since you use antoher partition for downloads/docs.

I use a primary 50GB partition for OS/Apps/Games and the rest of the HD is for downloads/docs. THe primary partition is rarely fragmented and when it is it doesn't take long to defrag.

[xfxsupport]

Hey All,
Just checking in and it seems that you got your system working now Zachig. Glad to hear it was just a corrupted drive. As for the temperatures. We expect a card to run around 75-85C under load. If you are experiencing any temperatures over that then I would start to become concerned. We recommend that you periodically clean out the video card heat sink and fan with a can of compressed air. I usually clean out all the fans and vents in my home every three months. This is a little more than necessary but I have pets and live in a dusty environment. Anyways I digress, please let us know if you are getting temperatures of 90C on a regular basis.

[zachig]

Hey All,
Just checking in and it seems that you got your system working now Zachig. Glad to hear it was just a corrupted drive. As for the temperatures. We expect a card to run around 75-85C under load. If you are experiencing any temperatures over that then I would start to become concerned. We recommend that you periodically clean out the video card heat sink and fan with a can of compressed air. I usually clean out all the fans and vents in my home every three months. This is a little more than necessary but I have pets and live in a dusty environment. Anyways I digress, please let us know if you are getting temperatures of 90C on a regular basis.
Thanks!!! Actually the problems are NOT solved, yet...:confused:

I was starting to get those "desktop freezes" again...:( It happens ONLY when quitting a game...:roll:

I now suspect the Video Drivers (I'm using 91.47 WHQL and I've read somewhere that they're horrible and cause a lot of BSOD and freezings, so they might be the cause for my problems).
If you'll have a serach in the internet you'll see a lot of people complaining on the same issue and some of them installed a different video drivers version and got the problem fixed...:???:
So...what I'm going to do now is to test both 91.33 WHQL and 92.91 Beta...and hopefully, this will fix my problem...:roll:

Thanks for your advice and help.

I'll keep you updated (as always...:wink: )

[Scott]

If you think it is heat related take the side off the case and run the machine. If the problem goes away then it is heat, if not then it is not heat. Pretty simple to figure that one out.

[markkleb]

I noticed in your pictures you didnt have the 4 pin power plugged in on your mobo.
Was that because it wasent finished?

Im sure that matters a bunch with SLI.
http://img479.imageshack.us/img479/2258/img3025av5.jpg

[DragonMaster]

I noticed in your pictures you didnt have the 4 pin power plugged in on your mobo.
Was that because it wasent finished?
The PCI-Ex connectors aren't connected too. I think that the setup isn't finished in his case, since the mobo probably won't boot at all without the molex. (Well, I know only one motherboard with a 5/12v 4-pin molex, and it doesn't do anything w/o it, maybe it's just beeping, I don't remember.)

OT : An other thing I just noticed is the ugly prehistorical CDROM 4-pin audio cable. Big news for a lot of people : it's a thing of the past, the last time it was requiered was if you had a Creative sound card and Windows 98(The DAE option was greyed, don't ask me why). Audio CDs are read thru the IDE cable using DAE since then. It sounds much better that way(Better than SPDIF too).

Can be useful for cable management '!'

Go in the Device Manager, doubleclick your optical drive, go in Properties, make sure Digital CD Playback checkbox is enabled (Should be per default, your 4-pin cable was never used if so)

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: ---> One thing to note is that you will not be able to read Audio CDs under DOS anymore. <--- :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

[Scott]

Yep not going to run to well with out the power cords plugged into the cards.

[markkleb]

Thanks Dragon, I had no clue.

Quote:
OT : An other thing I just noticed is the ugly prehistorical CDROM 4-pin audio cable. Big news for a lot of people : it's a thing of the past, the last time it was requiered was if you had a Creative sound card and Windows 98(The DAE option was greyed, don't ask me why). Audio CDs are read thru the IDE cable using DAE since then. It sounds much better that way(Better than SPDIF too).

[DragonMaster]

Thanks Dragon, I had no clue.
Heh, one less cable to hide, cases look better! (And no more problem with one audio cable per CDROM)

[tomato]

Wow, I didn't know that either... thanks Dragon ;)
Back on topic, those pics must've come before he completed the installation of the cards...

[darkorb]

the mobo still needs to be plugged into the psu, the 4 pin molex connector

[zachig]

The PCI-Ex connectors aren't connected too. I think that the setup isn't finished in his case, since the mobo probably won't boot at all without the molex. (Well, I know only one motherboard with a 5/12v 4-pin molex, and it doesn't do anything w/o it, maybe it's just beeping, I don't remember.)

OT : An other thing I just noticed is the ugly prehistorical CDROM 4-pin audio cable. Big news for a lot of people : it's a thing of the past, the last time it was requiered was if you had a Creative sound card and Windows 98(The DAE option was greyed, don't ask me why). Audio CDs are read thru the IDE cable using DAE since then. It sounds much better that way(Better than SPDIF too).

Can be useful for cable management '!'

Go in the Device Manager, doubleclick your optical drive, go in Properties, make sure Digital CD Playback checkbox is enabled (Should be per default, your 4-pin cable was never used if so)

---> One thing to note is that you will not be able to read Audio CDs under DOS anymore. <---

EXACTLY!!! I took the pictures during work, so it wasn't finished by then, but OF COURSE, my Molex connector are WELL-CONNECTED to the cards.

Regarding the 4pin CDROM Audio Cable...I really didn't know that it'll work without that cable!!! I feel so stupid that I insisted on connecting it in my new case...and never tried to test if it works without it...:lol:

So...thanks for the tip.

Now...back to te problem I had:

Scott, I really hope that you're wrong :wink: and it's not heat-related...:roll:

So far, I've installed the nVidia 92.91 BETA drivers and they work falwlessly and I get even higher FPS in 3DMark06 and better image quality...BUT...the most important thing is: I DON'T GET THESE DESKTOP FREEZES ANYMORE.

It's still hard to tell if the problem is gone for good :roll: , but it seems that replacing my previous 91.47 WHQL drivers with the 92.91 BETA drivers solved the problem...:mrgreen:

Anyway, I'm CROSSING MY FINGERS (real hard :lol: ) that the freezes won't return...and if so, I'll be SUPER-HAPPY.

But...in case the problems will return (and I really hope they won't :???: ) I'll surely check your idea Scott, as it should be pretty easy to check if it's heat-related or not...:wink:

So...thanks again guys and I guess I'll just keep track and see if the problem returns or not...I'll keep ya updated of course...:paw:

[DragonMaster]

I guess we can just wish you good luck with the new drivers!

Since the cards were told to be matched in the contest, they probably tested a lot of cards to see which ones fit the best together (If it's the same as RAM, ceramic filters in tuners, tubes)

[werty316]

I guess we can just wish you good luck with the new drivers!

Since the cards were told to be matched in the contest, they probably tested a lot of cards to see which ones fit the best together (If it's the same as RAM, ceramic filters in tuners, tubes)
SLi doesn't require a user to use the same video cards from the same manufacturer so you can mix n' match cards with the same GPU since Detonator 80 drivers; its hit or miss if you get a good or bad 7900GT.

[DragonMaster]

If they're matched, it's going to run even better!

[tomato]

Why would you think that? They're basically all the same reference board & GPU... it's just the looks and any other bells & whistles that are added... all that matters is matching up the GPU of the two cards for SLI.

[DragonMaster]

Two same chip don't always perform the same, there's always a bit of difference between both, matching means that you try to find those that perform the same. A bit complicated, but I'm not sure that the cards in this contest were matched this way.

[tomato]

Now you have me wondering... how much of a real difference would it make? IE: performance, fps, etc? I can say from experience that an exact matched set isn't neccessary for some great performance ;) :)

EDIT: sorry, didn't mean to de-rail the thread, zachig... good luck with your tests :)

[zachig]

OK!!! An Important update, guys!!!

Partition E:\ got corrupted AGAIN!!! :confused:

So...I had enough of that and decided to have a clean and fresh windows install.

When I finished Windows installation and everything was set up...GUESS WHAT??? Partition E:\ got corrupted AGAIN!!! :evil:

I finally (and I don't know why I didn't do it earlier) decided to Run "WD Data LifeGuard Diagnostics" tool. And...GUESS WHAT??? Somewhere around 55%, somwhere around the beginning of Partition E:\, I found TONS of BAD SECTORS!!! :evil:

I'm SOOOO MAD right now that I can kill someone!!! I'm so pissed off that I've spent too much time and thought I have a faulty backup image and/or I was doing something wrong!!! :evil:

So...I'm gonna head to the store now and they'd better gimmie a new H.D immediately...or I'm gonna kill someone!!! Errr!!!!

So...I'll keep you updated of course...:wink:

And...here's a screenshot of what I got in WD LifeGuard Diagnostics:

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/5300/badsectors2aa4.th.jpg (http://img269.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badsectors2aa4.jpg)

[DragonMaster]

1- Killed HDD
2- HDD defective

I guess you're as lucky as my father and me... (We're masters at buying broken brand new things)

Try to change for a Seagate if they got some now ;)

[Kougar]

Sounds like at some point, probably the PCI bus overclock, lead to corrupted sectors on the drive. Once that happens you'd have to do a full format, not a quick one to fix it as I don't think a "quick format" and reinstall would take care of it. Or a repair utility, although the only one crossing my mind atm is SpinRite 6.

[DragonMaster]

Hi zachig, I think that your partitions could get corrupted if the old partitions table is. Since you have a backup, I think that when you reinstalled Windows, you should have deleted all your partitions and start all over again. But first, get a new HDD to see if it still happens or not.

New partitions(Maybe more space for C: also?) and a new installation using the latest nF4 SATA drivers copied to the SATA floppy, I guess everything should work well that way. If not, relax on overclocking.

The PCI bus is locked on nF4 motherboards AFAIK.

[werty316]

Two same chip don't always perform the same, there's always a bit of difference between both, matching means that you try to find those that perform the same. A bit complicated, but I'm not sure that the cards in this contest were matched this way.
What would you say after reading this: http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=908

If the cards don't have the same serial number they aren't matched pairs and I never heard of matched pair video cards.

Anyhow damn zachig how much bad lucky did those 7900GTs give you? Maybe WD can RMA it for you but I don't know if bad sectors are good enough to RMA the HD.

[zachig]

I've already tried to delete ALL the partitions and FULLY FORMTAT the drive, but couldn't FORMAT it. ALL I could do was a sh**ty "quick" format!!! :???:

And about the RMA, I'm surely gonna RMA this drive. I'm fonna head to the store right now and get a new one instead!!! I'm not gonna give up, as I just bought it 7 days ago...:roll: Oh...and if there's a Seagate HD to take instead, I'll surely take Seagate this time!!! :wink:

It is surely a defective drive, and I think it has nothing to do with overclocking...:???:

Now...I'm pretty sure that my Backup is OK since I did it on Partition C:\ which contained GOOD SECTORS. The BAD sectors were located after the middle of the drive, exactly where Partition E:\ is located...:roll:

So...more updates to come soon...:wink:

And hopefully I'll be able to have everything installed and workig properly in a few hours...:roll::mrgreen:

[tomato]

Heh, that'll learn ya!

...jk, Seagate for life ;) :) :P

[zachig]

Heh, that'll learn ya!

...jk, Seagate for life ;) :) :P

Yeah...but ALL I could get...and eventually got (after replacing the defective one)...is a brand new and WORKING (this time) WD 250GB SATA II H.D...:lol:

At least this one seems to be working well so far (I haven't finished installing everything yet...:wink: )

[DragonMaster]

Well... Just like this, is the SATA I/II jumper set to the good mode? I know that it wasn't when we got my father's computer and it was having problems.

[zachig]

Well... Just like this, is the SATA I/II jumper set to the good mode?
I really hope so...:lol: :wink:

[zachig]

OK, guys!!! Everything is working 100% for the last two days.

I still haven't installed even one game, because I was pretty busy in the last to days.

I'm about to leave home for a long weekend...till Sunday evening :grin: , so I guess I'll install some games only when I'll come back. :roll:

I want to install them, so I can finally test the cards and see that everything is working well...:???:

So...have a good weekend, and I'll be back with updates on Monday!!! :mrgreen: