Ever wonder why there seems to be so many problems in the Middle East?

[XJnine]

http://www.mapsofwar.com/ind/imperial-history.html


Who has controlled the Middle East over the course of history? Pretty much everyone. Egyptians, Turks, Jews, Romans, Arabs, Persians, Europeans...the list goes on. Who will control the Middle East today? That is a much bigger question.


Very interesting flash representation of all that has happened in the Middle East over the years. After watching it you can see why it seems like it's such a mess over there.

[vfrex]

That's pretty damn good. I usually blame british imperialism :p

[Enigmachine]

THey should overlay a map of all the McDonalds in the area :D

[liqnit]

THey should overlay a map of all the McDonalds in the area :D

That clown is the definite cause for all the havoc :biggrin:

[borschtBomber[SS]]

That clown is the definite cause for all the havoc :biggrin:

rotflmao....oh how true it is.

[werty316]

This could be another reason why there are so many problems in the middle east :lol:

http://www.killsometime.com/Pictures/images/Middle-East.jpg

[Gray]

THey should overlay a map of all the McDonalds in the area :D

Don't forget KFC/Taco Time. lol.

And don't count out the ongoing struggle of Coke VS. Pepsi in the area.

[ZhengHe]

Well I would say a lack of strong government, infrastructure, and resources, but all the other explanations seem to work just as well. Now the next question is how to get rid of those problems.

[vfrex]

Well I would say a lack of strong government

Isn't that essentially what that flash video demonstrates?

[ZhengHe]

Isn't that essentially what that flash video demonstrates?

Yes and no, since the Middle East has had some remarkably strong governments in the past, but that did not preclude it from being invaded and conquered once again. All you need to conquer a region is a strong enough army for a protracted period of time, no matter how strong the country's government you invade is they can be overcome so no I would disagree. Just compare the Middle East to any landlocked country in Europe over a period of years and proportionally you will find that the invasion frequency isn't all that different.

Having said that what has changed now in that region is a strong government center and though that change was helped along by European imperialism it is not an end in and of itself. You could of course make the that link and wouldn't be wrong in doing so, but I believe to say that weak government always precedes an invasion and that essentially the Middle East has been invaded because a strong government was never present is wrong. The whole point that empires could take hold of the region of a period of years and keep it disproves that theory and could actually to serve to demonstrate the opposite.

[PP Mguire]

Idk if im reading your post wrong cause i just read it twice but to me it seems like your saying that they need a strong govenrment but they have had one and it just keeps on getting envaded. Then you say all over again that they need a strong government and then you say yet again that it will just get invaded. In that case they need a strong army with a strong government but then we would have Hitler all over again. I say, Americans should get the hell outa there and leave them alone. Stop destroyin countried, and rebuilding them only to have them shoot at us again. Freakin stupid if you ask me.

Oh hey lets take out this country for some random reason. Boom they are dead. Ok now lets rebuild them and give them weapons. Oh hey, why are they shooting at us? I swear, this county can be pretty stupid. George Washington said to mind our Ps and Qs but thats exactly what were not doing.

[vfrex]

Well, I think the point is that the region has never had its own "antonomous" government. It has been a series of empires invading and conquering old ones. That occured for thousands of years, up until the mid 1900's. At that point, the final empire, Britain, started to create "artificial" states. These states run on infrastructure imposed by the British empire, rather than grown organically. It's like any country with newfound independence, only there are flaws in their inherited systems. That is all compounded by the fact that oil is the most desirable and necessary commodity in the world today, and these fledgling independent countries have absolutely no idea how to handle it.

[XJnine]

One large issue is the way in which most of the current country boundaries are drawn in that region now, Africa included. The boundaries were drawn up without regards to established ethic and social boundaries by the colonial powers. By combining groups that hate each other into a single country they have created the basis for all the civil wars we have seen in that area over the last few decades. Some people just need to have their own country, we can't force people to get along. The hatred is sometimes so ingrained in culture or religion that it cannot be overcome no matter how strong the government is.

[PP Mguire]

Which is extremely rediculous but i guess theres no way of getting over how stupid humanity is.

[mousiness]

umm guys, honestly, there is some serious ignorancy going on here...

1- Youre media blinded, media only shows the bad things, thats how they make their money, nobody wants to watch the boring good stuff thats going on in the world, they thrive on the pain and suffering of others...

2- U.S and Canada want to keep a good reputation so they show none of their many, many problems (I mean many), they show the middle-easts's problems... there are so many problems in NorthAmerica and other countries... the U.S has covered up and kept secret so many of their military scandals, government problems and scandals, I dont know where to start.

3- Middle-East has some very successful countries, for example, rich Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Jordan, Iraq in the golden years, Kuwait, the list goes on. And most of this crap is happening because the U.S keeps showing their noses where they dont need to, the pathetic sanctions that are going to do nothing for the country but destroy it even more... looking for attention and power no? Whats the point of sending soldiers to Iraq when the soldiers are absolutely insane? DId you guys watch the video on youtube where the soldiers beat down Iraqi kids for no reason and made the kids run for water? Disgusting.... The U.S doesnt even wanna bring back the soldiers from iraq because it would cost a fortune, the soldiers are overworked some of them have been there for years, that would lead to tiredness which leads to boredom which leads to soldiers not doing their jobs.

4- The clash of religions is insane, Jews, Muslims are not a good mix, especially with all the crap Israel has been dealing with the muslim countries, have you guys seen the laws of muslim countries have? If any person has an Israeli stamp on their Visa they wont be allowed into the country is the most insane one..

5- The need for power- whoever gets elected in these rich arab countries thinks they have all the power in the world at their fingertips, which leads to what happened in Iraq- (lots of power and money in a country + a crazy dictator = trouble)

There are so many things that you guys are completely ignoring here, please, dont be disrespectful and look at the facts...

look at the flash video and see that these religious wars have been going on for so long... by the way im assyrian and I never knew that their kingdom was so big, now the only assyrians left are the ones in my hometown of Qaraqosh and some small villages near it, this place is near the North of Iraq an hour away from Erbil

[vfrex]

Ignorancy isn't even a word...and that was mostly pointless rambling. We shouldn't send soldiers to iraq because there is a video on youtube of a few acting like assholes?

And don't tell me that a country is rich and successful when its economy is based entirely around exporting oil, the government runs the biggest oil company, and income isn't so fairly distributed.

Honestly, i don't even know what you are trying to say with your post. I'm not really sure where to begin refuting it.

[XJnine]

Whats the point of sending soldiers to Iraq when the soldiers are absolutely insane?


All I know is I tuned your nonsense out as soon as I read that line (although it was already a mind numbing read before that).

Having spent 10 years in the US Navy I can tell you right now that you are the one who is ignorant if you actually believe what you wrote in that quote. The only kind of person who would write something like that is someone who has never made any type of sacrifice for their country and takes for granted all the freedoms and opportunities they are afforded by living in a free country.

[mousiness]

the videos probably got taken off youtube and you havent lived there have you? nor are you arab or have remotely any sense of what its like to be one...

[vfrex]

Have you ever lived in America? Do you have any idea what its like to be one?

edit> Point being, you need to put together a well thought out, comprehensible argument if you want to seriously discuss topics like this.

[mousiness]

I have lived in America, I know what its like, especially in New York, I have also lived in India, Malaysia, Finland and Canada and I can fluently speak 5 languages...;-)

[XJnine]

I'm surprised you weren't murdered by one of us insane ex soldiers. You know we can't be trusted. We'll beat you down and make you run for water for no reason. It happens all over America every day. That's why we send our soldiers to foreign lands to fight wars, so they don't make us run for water at home.

[werty316]

I can fluently speak 5 languages...;-)
In that case I would post a nice pic that you should be able to understand as to stop you from digging a deeper grave for yourself but I don't want to get banned :lol:

[PP Mguire]

Dude, just stop while your ahead. Your obviously to young to understand politics. Stop reading the papers and watching the news and pretend you know what they are talking about.

[vfrex]

Even if you could speak five languages, clearly you are ignorning the other elements of development.

which leads to what happened in Iraq- (lots of power and money in a country + a crazy dictator = trouble)

What are you trying to say here? I know this might be hard to imagine, but do you think that Saddam's heavy handed approach and craziness might have kept the country out of civil war?

[PP Mguire]

Like i was saying in the other thread, he is only taking half of what he hears from his parents, and half of what he reads and thinks he understands it. When he gets older hopefulyl he will realize how stupid he sounds right now.

[mousiness]

bias, bias, bias, no wonder you guys act like this, you take your american side of the story and dont take any part of the middle east, plus PP like in the other thread, being ONLY 5 years older doesnt give you the right either, you were only 4 years old when the gulf war started and now youre coming up with complete lies... take the polls for instance, half think bush is good half think hes bad, those halves are probably half american, then the other half are immigrants, which kind of contradict each other and have their own bias. You guys have no right to say the middle east has more problems than the US and/or north americas thats my point, and if you guys DO think that, then youe in denial

[XJnine]

You guys have no right to say the middle east has more problems than the US and/or north americas thats my point, and if you guys DO think that, then youe in denial

You're right. We're blowing each other up over here daily and shooting rockets over into Canada. Damn our media for hiding this from us!!! Only the rest of the world knows this but not us!!! ;-)

[vfrex]

and shooting rockets over into Canada.

Don't tempt me!

[mousiness]

You're right. We're blowing each other up over here daily and shooting rockets over into Canada. Damn our media for hiding this from us!!! Only the rest of the world knows this but not us!!! ;-)

exactly the kind of ignorance and immaturity im pointing towards, noneteheless you do not know anythign about media blindness i will go no furthetr into this topic, goodbye

[PP Mguire]

exactly the kind of ignorance and immaturity im pointing towards, noneteheless you do not know anythign about media blindness i will go no furthetr into this topic, goodbye Jesus Christ thats called sarcasm to an idiot. Why dont you get off the internet, get a life, and grow up. Quit going to Wiki and reading everything then thinking you know everything.

Being the 5 years older that i AM i do have a right to call you kiddish and immature considering i was there before. Its called being older, and being an adult. Not to mention having to support myself AND my own friggin family, AND actualy living in the US all my life i believe i have a right to say i know how its like in my own damn country. Nowhere did i ever say this is a perfect country. Actualy, our GOV is more curroupt than the damn church, and thats saying something. The funny thing is, please tell me where im coming up with "complete lies". I havent said a damned thing that was a lie. The fact that were calling your bluff is pissing you off so your trying to get off on the rest of us. Well all i have to say is if you love So Damned Insane so much go back to your own country and youll join him and his followers real quick.

I also believe that we, actualy living in the Americas, would know about how much **** the media blows up our asses. So dont even go there. But like i said, since you dont even live here you wouldnt understand. Get a life BOY, and quit trying to sound older than you really are. Because its only making you sound younger.

[s_gibson]

You're right. We're blowing each other up over here daily and shooting rockets over into Canada. Damn our media for hiding this from us!!! Only the rest of the world knows this but not us!!! ;-)

He must have watched Canadian Bacon :)