Antec Sonata III

[Victor]

Reviewer: Mr. Victor "Victor" Wu

Date Published: June 11, 2007

Excerpt: "The third incarnation of Antec maintains the same looks as the first generation. What has changed is the power supply has been upgraded to EarthWatt 500W and the front panel is now including the eSATA. If you are a fan of the original Sonata, you sure will love this case and the the upgrades will definitely make this case a great choice for those who need a case with a good quality power supply."


http://www.bjorn3d.com/Material/revimages/case/antec_sonata_iii/sonata.jpg

Please feel free to post your comments and questions here!

Link To Review (http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1109)

[PP Mguire]

One thing that is missing from the Sonata III is cable management. The case does not offer any way to hide the cables. There are places where you can put the cables away from obstruction, such as on the bottom of the hard drive rails, but they don't truly offer a way to hide the cables.Im sorry, but i will have to say this part is truly wrong.
If you will notice, my cables are tidy (please excuse the Antec SP 450watt. Its what came with it and wanted to make an example)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v701/pp_mguire/S4020003-1.jpg

[Victor]

Hi, PP Mguire

thanks for that awesome picture and your feedback.

I meant that Sonata III does not offer a way to manage and a way to hide the cables like some cases. It does have crevices inside the case for user to hide the cables and like you have found out, a skill bulder like you can really hide the cable well so the case looks clean and neat.

I have added the that as addendum to the review for our readers so they can check your awesome cable management skills.:icon_tiphat:

[PP Mguire]

AHHH lol, but thanks i appreciate that!! And i will have to say though, that you said the inside is pretty much the same as the I and II. I have, and own I and II and the inside is the exact same. If this is true with III then there is easily a manageable way to hide your cables. For instance like with the harddrives you can just switch them around. Just takes a little patience thats all ;)

[Unregistered]

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[PP Mguire]

Actualy believe it or not the only thing thats dusty was that Antec fan in the back. My gfs camera (at the time) was just not that great when i took that picture. Ill get pictures of my friends PC later on today and put up links to those. (Im not using the Sonata anymore)

[Amarantine]

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[Kougar]

Howdy, thanks for your question!

Actually the PSU in question splits that into two 12v rails limited to 17amps each. Additionally Antec neglects to mention the total combined load of both 12v rails, however looking at the info they do provide it is not likely to be a full 34 amps under a combined load. Also where exactly did you pull that "400W on the +12V" number from, I do not see it mentioned anywhere?

[Amarantine]

So firstly i have to metion that only Tagan have "real" lines in his PSU. Other psu's have lines divided only for health security reasons. This do not influence voltages so much.
Example? Topower p7 450W can run core2duo (2.4GHz OCed) + 2 8800GTX card with voltages better than tagan 900W (u95). Whole set was taking 340W from PSU and ~420W from the wall. That's why i was smiling while reading that this earth watts won't run single 8800GTX. Ofc NVIDIA and other companys will recoment something like 900W for this Sli but this is pure marketing and total madness.
Here are charts from tagan vs topower duel
+12V
http://galeria.purepc.pl/d/11981-1/12v+atx.png
Power consumption
http://galeria.purepc.pl/d/11990-2/zuzycie+energii.png

Seconldy why 400W? So u can find this info in the net or count
W=A*V
=> 34A*12V= 408W

[kater]

Howdy, thanks for your question!

Actually the PSU in question splits that into two 12v rails limited to 17amps each. Additionally Antec neglects to mention the total combined load of both 12v rails, however looking at the info they do provide it is not likely to be a full 34 amps under a combined load. Also where exactly did you pull that "400W on the +12V" number from, I do not see it mentioned anywhere?

The label itself says 408W combined. Assuming 3.3V and 5V rails are not really loaded these days by modern rigs (say, up to 20% of the total combined power on both of them) you'll have the entire 12V rail at your disposal.

That PSU is enough to pull a rig with an OC'ed C2D & 8800GTX SLI.

[Kater]

The label itself says 408W combined load on 12V rails. Remember that today's rigs don't really use the 3.3V and 5V rails. Only 10-15% of the total load can be attributed to these rails.

That PSU will handle an OC'ed C2D + 8800GTX SLI with such a strong 12V rail.

[Victor]

thank you so much for the post.

the PSU may be able to handle the card without any problem. The article said "probably" doesn't said "definitely", thus, it's not a definitive statement. It all depends on the system configuration.

[Kougar]

My apologies, I did miss the asterisk notation confirming it can support a total 34A combined load. Without that confirmation it would be a bad idea to make that assumption of 34Ax12v=400watts.

In order for that chart to be correct it would need to be an extremely lean computer configuration for two GTX cards in SLI draw a mere 320/440watts at Idle/Load, which is about the only way I could see such a PSU handling two GTX cards in SLI in the first place. A typcial overclocking enthusiast PC will draw over 500watts with a single GTX.

Running a single 320mb GTS card I have personally drawn 360-370watts under load, with only two hard drives. QuadCore or highly overclocked Dualcore C2Ds with two GTX in SLI typcially need 550-600 watts. It is not just the video card(s) in the system that drive the power consumption up, so with that in mind I still would agree with Victor on this. One GTX may be safe but two would be asking for trouble assuming it could even be connected!

Edit: Here's a quick link to one of our reviews here: Link (http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1111&pageID=3510) I'll freely admit those results are on the high side, but not so much to be atypical from what I have seen.

[Amarantine]

Running a single 320mb GTS card I have personally drawn 360-370watts under load, with only two hard drives.

How have tou measured that? Software from UPS?

Intel Pentium D950, overclocked / overvolted 10% (Presler, 3.74GHz)
Asus P5LD2-VM motherboard
4 x 1024MB Corsair DDR2-6400 RAM
ATI Radeon X1950XTX-512 PCIe graphics
Hitachi Deskstar 7K80 80GB hard drive
WD Raptor WD1500ADFD 150GB 10krpm HDD
This takes 298W in PCMark. Mesured by profesional PSU testing equipment. That why i do not belive in your power consumption. This is 298W from the wall. PSU is giving 256W to the hardware.

[Unregistered]

first off i have to say good review. i got here when i was reading the review of the antec sonata III.
I read the previous posts about if this psu can handle it.

i'm thinking to build a system using this psu and the sonata III. and adding a dual core 6600 an 8800 GTS 640 MB and an asus p5n 650i motherboard.

can this psu handle it. because i heard and read that a 600 Watt PSU is required.

[Amarantine]

Haha I'm genius. You are counting Watts taken from the wall right? So if your UPS is indicating 360W at load so it is probably like that. Why? Cause your PSU is working with a very low load (it is a 750W unit) it has very low EFFICIENCY. I'll count it for something like 72-75%. So
360*0,75 = 270W
And this is a probable load but still 40W to much for me. Maybe UPS is not so accurate like a prof. watt counting machine? So now ask your self a question if You want to pay for that 25% of energy that your PSU is just wasting ;)


because i heard and read that a 600 Watt PSU is required.

Wow ownzd. Cpu will need less than 100W after hard OC. Card is ~100W. Other stuff 50-70W? This set will be fine with a good 400W supply.

[Victor]

first off i have to say good review. i got here when i was reading the review of the antec sonata III.
I read the previous posts about if this psu can handle it.

i'm thinking to build a system using this psu and the sonata III. and adding a dual core 6600 an 8800 GTS 640 MB and an asus p5n 650i motherboard.

can this psu handle it. because i heard and read that a 600 Watt PSU is required.


thank you so much for your reply and read our review. If you got a chance, register for our forum:)

I would say it's probably going to be okay. The PSU should handle your system. 8800GTS would require a minimum of 500W I believe and also on the +12V shoudl bea round 30A or so. So the PSU does meet the min system requirement. I think if you OC, maybe you need to worry about the PSU but for the stock setting I would say it's fine.

[PP Mguire]

You also have to realize that those Earth Watts PSUs arent very efficient at all. You may be able to load them up with that much from one machine but it wont last long.

I ran
X2 4800+
DFI Lanparty SLI-DR
4x1gig PC3200 Corsair Value Select
Saphire X1900XTX
and 2 HDs
On my old Antec SP 450watt PSU. But that thing got so hot whenever i even STARTED a game. You have to realize just becasue it CAN handle it dosent mean it can for very long. And PCmark? Please. Pcmark isnt crap dude. Run a REAL game for about 30 minutes to an hour on your "PSU testing machine". Lets see how many watts your pulling.

[magic_frankie]

do i understand it right if u are advising me to go with a bigger psu?
and what is a good psu for this system. i thought an antec neo 550 watt, it is reviewed as a very good psu. but only 550 watts. would that be enough?

[Amarantine]

You also have to realize that those Earth Watts PSUs arent very efficient at all. You may be able to load them up with that much from one machine but it wont last long.

Are not what? Have You really readed the review? Antec EW never ever have efficiency lower than 80%. This is that 80+ singn one the box :E


I ran
X2 4800+
DFI Lanparty SLI-DR
4x1gig PC3200 Corsair Value Select
Saphire X1900XTX
and 2 HDs
On my old Antec SP 450watt PSU. But that thing got so hot whenever i even STARTED a game. You have to realize just becasue it CAN handle it dosent mean it can for very long. And PCmark? Please. Pcmark isnt crap dude. Run a REAL game for about 30 minutes to an hour on your "PSU testing machine". Lets see how many watts your pulling.

Old PSU have lower eff than new constructions (for example Earth Watts or new rev. of Seasonic s12). That's why your supply is getting hot while new PSU will remain cool. Yet your config will consume more energy than core2duo + 8800GTX. I'll give it even 300W in full burn (2xorthos stress prime + 3dmark + some *.rar unpacking or file copying). That is why your PSU is hot. Still I do not see any sense in buying more than 400W on +12V rail for a single video card configuration. Plz do not read all this **** NVIDIA gives you. Open google write "XXX power consumption" and read. Core2duo 6600 is only 60W and 8800GTX is 130. NVIDIA recomends 600W PSU. This is just stealing your money guys, pure marketing. Be aware of that.


magic_frankie

550 will be to much, read what i've written to PP Mguire or just use google. Still NeoHe is a goooood choice. If you like silence maybe some seasonic?

[PP Mguire]

Yea, so pretty much your saying there is no need to have anything higher than 450watt in newer PSU standard. HAHAHA. Ok, try going to Xtremesystems.org and put any of their systems on your little PSU. See how fast it frys under the intense pressure of all that OCing. They wont last. Please explain to me why if we dont need anything more than 450watts why are they making 1k+ PSUs? If the needs not there then why make them? Why am i seeing friends that are HXC OCers with triple phase change units FRY 1k+ units from overload with 3 GTXs?

Sorry dude, you can never have to much. If your PSU is being underworked your actualy saving power. And ive put that 500watt EW under load, thing crapped in 3 months.

[Amarantine]

Please explain to me why if we dont need anything more than 450watts why are they making 1k+ PSUs? If the needs not there then why make them? Why am i seeing friends that are HXC OCers with triple phase change units FRY 1k+ units from overload with 3 GTXs?

Sorry dude, you can never have to much. If your PSU is being underworked your actualy saving power. And ive put that 500watt EW under load, thing crapped in 3 months.

So i'll give you a little text that Kater-Acem have wroten. Read only few of these links and then start to talk with me. I can't stad arguments "thay are making powerful PSU so we need it". First link is in my opinion the best (spcr is a very very prof portal about PSU and other silent hardware)


1st of all - get a Kill-A-Watt or Seasonic Power Angele, or Voltcraft EnergyCheck - cost a mere 30-40 bucks, are v accurate and easy to operate. Used by lots of hardware sites. Be sure to multiply the measured data with 0.75 or 0.80 (PSU efficiency) or even 0.85 for EarthWatts or Seasonic Energy+ (very efficient PSU's).

2nd thing - actually try loading your PSU with a heavy rig. If it can't make it, it will shut off, and you will see when, at what point.

3rd - just take a look at these links (that's what I managed to find in 5 mins with google)

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article28-page4.html (they've got v accurate measurements)

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/dis...e_14.html#sect0 (they've got a specially modded rig allowing to measure real pwr cons of CPU's and VGA cards)

http://www.anandtech.com/printarticle.aspx?i=2873

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36066

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/514/7/

http://www.behardware.com/articles/670-1/p...onsumption.html

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=4812

http://www.hwupgrade.com/articles/video/13...s-in-sli_5.html

http://www.behardware.com/articles/644-9/n...x-8800-gts.html

ETC ETC ETC ....

Just please DO REMEMBER to multiply these values by 0.8 to get the actual power consumption.

Guys, I'm sorry, but saying you need anything over 450W for a single gfx card rig is dark ages. There's been plenty of tests proving a decent, brand name <600W PSU will handle any SLI/Xfire rig. If you want FX-74 - fine, you'll need more.

And please remember that running a good PSU at 100% is OK for it. That's what ATX standard says. Of course, we all want to have some safety margin, some headroom - but let's make it 1/3 over top maintained load. You don't really need to have 100% headroom. Or do you? Why would you?

Amarantine's post quoting the Polish site testing a 450W PSU with 8800GTX rig is all true - no BS at all. Just one of many tests.

Oh, and why would anyone say that EA is not so efficient? It's certified, remebere? +80 !!! It does mean exactly that. http://www.silentpcreview.com/article684-page1.html

Thanks for reading my longish post.
Regards, Patryk

[PP Mguire]

Ok then. Maybe some ppl want to have headroom in the future upgrades department. My old SP 450 watt had ONE PCI-E connector. That wont even power a single GTX let alone 2 in SLI. Check mate.

[Amarantine]

Ok then. Maybe some ppl want to have headroom in the future upgrades department. My old SP 450 watt had ONE PCI-E connector. That wont even power a single GTX let alone 2 in SLI. Check mate.

So why You want to buy ever more powerful PSU for upgrades when it can also do not have enough conectors? Few years ago psu were mainly 3,3V and 5V now they are 12V. Now PSU have 6pin conector for pci-exp but next gen will have 8pin. And what is even more important buying two PSU with ~50% of power of the best psu on the market will be less expensive than buying one totaly sick high-end psu, and you will have all the time enough connectors and the latest construction with high efficiency. Remember there is a great difference in quality in one year old PSU and new one! One year old power supply wont have 80+ standard and other useful stuff. And old psu will have 450 combined and 300W on +12V. New one will have 400W combined and 360 on +12V. That is why you should not buy to strong PSU for future :)

Edit: Oh and can someone give a link to this topic here
http://www.bjorn3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8570
I have some problems with activation and can't post out there >_>

[magic_frankie]

i'm not going to oc my future system so i won't have to take that with me in choosing the psu. it's just the fact the sonata III is a nice case with a nice psu. otherwise i'll have to buy a seperate case and psu witch is going to cost me a 100€ more atleast. so if this psu can run it in stock specs than that's fine for me. but then again it would be a shame if i would buy this and then it would seem that i have to buy myself a new psu because this one can't handle it :frown:

[Amarantine]

It will handle it for sure.

[PP Mguire]

Oh yea it will be able to run it fine. Like mentioned in a post before i ran those specs on the 450 watt Antec Smart Power that came in my SonataII. Even though it was really hot, it still ran.

And, none of my older PSUs have 8-pin connectors which are required on most newer motherboards. So your point is still not valid.

[Amarantine]

Oh yea it will be able to run it fine. Like mentioned in a post before i ran those specs on the 450 watt Antec Smart Power that came in my SonataII. Even though it was really hot, it still ran.

And, none of my older PSUs have 8-pin connectors which are required on most newer motherboards. So your point is still not valid.

Sry but do not understand. I try to prove that buying for future is a bad idea. Than You say that your old PSU do not have some connectors. That is exactly what i am talking about. Even if you buy now 1kW unit you can't be sure that it will be compatible with all standards for ~2 years.

[magic_frankie]

then the sonata III will do. now i can setup a system for 1000 € and maybe get a samsung 20" widescreen. :grin: and like amarantine mentioned in 2 or 3 years i will probably get my self a new system and then i'll see what is needed then. thank u for u help on this :icon_tiphat:

[Amarantine]

Your welcome. Remeber to have a good cooling inside your case. Earth Watts is a silent psu but it do not like hot atmosphere inside the case.

[magic_frankie]

yeah i know same with my current system. it sucks bigtime and not even the good 1 lol. bad airflow. i was thinking to mod the case by adding a 120 mm fan at the top between the 5.25 and the psu.

has anyone sum other ideas on increasing the airflow of the sonata III. or is it good as it is.

[PP Mguire]

The III is the same as the II and I on the inside. My temps where real low if i had 2 120's mounted inside on high.

Your point is that we dont need to buy the newer PSUs with more wattage. My point is yes we do becasue older PSUs dont have the connectors we need for todays computers. The newer the PSU the more wattage your gonna get. Why complain?

[Amarantine]

has anyone sum other ideas on increasing the airflow of the sonata III. or is it good as it is.

Your graphic card has a DHES cooling system so the heat inside the case will be mainly released by a cpu cooler. It will be nice if a fan on cpu cooler flows the air directly into the back side 120mm fan. You can try to make some kind of air tunnel which will stop the hot air from spreading around the case. I have done something like that for testing purposes few weeks ago
http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pict0152qy8.jpg
And i must say that it worked very very well. Do not care about all this mess inside. In every day use there is order inside. I was only doing some cooling experiments ;)
Now i have everything done even better
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/57854275/
but you now, water is water ;) Now all cooling inside my case is done by 2 120mm fans at 800 rpm.


The newer the PSU the more wattage your gonna get. Why complain?

As kater said before it is fine when you have 25% of wattage more than you need. If you have 50% or more it is not so good at all.

[magic_frankie]

because why spend more money (which i don't have at the moment anyway) on a system that is overdone. if i do not use the sonata III i have to spend atleast 200 € more for a descent case and a good psu. like i said i'm not tending to overclock my new rig and i'm prolly gonna get me a new system in 3 years anyway. so why should i get a psu that i can use over 3 years again. all this stuff is made to last a few years. so the 200€ 800 watt psu could go bad in 3 years and i would have never used the extra power. that would be a shame

**edit
i was planning on getting me a zalman cnps9500 which blows the air to the back of the case. then it would be better to use the back fan is an outtake and a second fan in the fron as an intake.

[PP Mguire]

Magic my PSU point wasnt directed at you ;) I bought the SonataII becasue of the 450watt PSU as well so i know where your coming from. Like previously posted in this thread, just put the 2 120mm fans in and have decent cable management and youll be fine.

These pics are VERY old and im obviously not using this system. But it was very cool and everything was overclocked and i left the side panel on.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v701/pp_mguire/S4020003-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v701/pp_mguire/rig.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v701/pp_mguire/rig1.jpg

[Amarantine]

Your point is that we dont need to buy the newer PSUs with more wattage. My point is yes we do becasue older PSUs dont have the connectors we need for todays computers. The newer the PSU the more wattage your gonna get. Why complain?

No my point is to buy new, good, low wattage psu with high efficiency. I am agains buying PSU for "future" and against "more watts => better".
Why? Lets analize a situation. There is a config like yours taking 100W in idle and let's say 250 while gaming. And we have two psu (same series and producer) one with 350W on +12V rail and a second 700W on +12V rail. Fan in first one will be rotating from 700 rpm to 1400 rpm while in the second, more powerfull one it will be from 1200 to 2000. Stronger PSU have to survive 700W load so it is logical that the fan will be much faster than in the first one that have to work only with 350W load.
First thing to remeber: at idle lower wattage psu work quieter (700 rpm) than a high wattage (1200 rpm). Second thing is efficiency. Pick of eff for a modern PSU comes in 75% of load. lower load => lower eff => more heat => bigger loss of energy and money. So moster PSU while idle will produce even more heat than a low wattage one.

Now we should move to stress situation. We take 250W from both power supplys. The first one is loaded in 71% while the second in 36%. We can clearly see that first one will produve less heat and will work quieter than the second one. The second one will start to be quieter when we pass a 90% load for the first power supply.

So now You can se that the best is when a psu work in stress with ~75% load, not more and not less. That is why you should not buy to powerfull PSU for your machine couse you will have more noise, more heat and more money lost due to energy loss.

Solution for that is to buy a PSU with 80+. That supply will have 80% eff even when loaded only in 20%. So if you want to buy a monster so much buy a 80+ monster. Yet remeber that the fan starts from bigger rpm in moster psu than in a low wattage.

From me i can say than a 350W on 12V is good for a single card. This a perfect power for all C2D + 8800GTs/x. We have many beatifull PSU with this power:
Enermax liberty 400W (my love oh oh i am a fanboy)
Seasonic s12 rev2 430W (and derivatives like corsair
Be quiet SP 450W (and other based on Forton GLN like Amarox or some OCZ or tacens or other)
Antec NeoHe 430W
Antec EarthWatts 430W
and many others :)


uff long text ;)

[PP Mguire]

First thing to remeber: at idle lower wattage psu work quieter (700 rpm) than a high wattage (1200 rpm). Second thing is efficiency. Pick of eff for a modern PSU comes in 75% of load. lower load => lower eff => more heat => bigger loss of energy and money. So moster PSU while idle will produce even more heat than a low wattage one.Wrong. Your bigger PSUs have 120-140mm fans in them. They dont even turn on till it gets warm enough and even then they dont come fully on till its being pushed hard. Which usualy is never. Your smaller PSUs have 80mm annoying POS fans in them. So still, bigger>smaller. Which in general makes half of your post wrong. The only thing i agree with half way is your efficientcy. THe more headroom you have the less it has to work. Meaning, youll have a greater efficiency the less power you consume on a high power PSU. Meaning, you save in your energy bill. Ive been through this on another forum and dont feel like arguing. Believe what you want to believe, ill know the truth. I dont have 3 electronic engineers in my family for nothing who would be more than happy to go toe to toe with you on this. Which for them, is simple becasue they have the knowledge to spit out the equations to make your head spin. Whereas i dont.

[Amarantine]

Wrong. Your bigger PSUs have 120-140mm fans in them. They dont even turn on till it gets warm enough and even then they dont come fully on till its being pushed hard. Which usualy is never. Your smaller PSUs have 80mm annoying POS fans in them. So still, bigger>smaller

Hmm so good to know that enermax/be quiet/seasonic have 80mm fan in their low wattage models. Damn photos show 120mm, what an awfull lie and photomanipulation :/

Oh and you make a very very popular mistake in thinking that low wattage PSU loaded with 300W will be hotter than high wattage. It will be not. Why? Efficiency once more. Low wattage one will be working with bigger eff and will be cooler. Oh and tacens offers halfpassive supply with powers lower than 500W if you are curious. So now be nice, save the world and ask one of your experts in the family to read this topic and post a comment. It will be most welcome :) Oh and my uncle can ride a tank, isn't that cool?

[kater]

@ PP Maguire

Most PSU's today have large 12 cm fans. Some have 8cm fans. Few have 14cm fans. It doesn't really matter as the fan alone does not make the PSU loud or quiet. It's the combination of a lot of factors. The fan - size, speed, bearings. The controller - its calibration. The radiators - size and layout. The efficiency of the PSU plays a v important role here. That's why you can have a v quiet PSU w 12cm fan "belly down" and a v quiet single 8cm fan PSU, and a v quiet dual 8cm push&pull fans PSU. Or v loud models as with fans above.
Ever heard a Chieftec GPS? Man, it's LOUD. Aka Kiowa assault chopper. Ever heard a Corsair HX? Dude, quiet as a nymph's virgin fart. And they DO have v similar fans - 12cm ball bearing hi speed fans. What makes the difference? Controller, efficiency, radiators. Same with EarthWatts or NeoHE PSU's compared with, say, Tagan U35.

Boasting your family is, kinda, weak. What are you? 5? Shall I get my big bro over here? C'mon...

Thing is - v few people actually know how powerful PSU's they have. Even fewer ppl know that buying a much bigger PSU for their rig has literally no advantages. You say connectors. I say - connecto you monster gfx thru a molex. Your gfx card came with proper connectors, right? Go get them.

Headroom. Fine. Everybody should havee headroom. Not having headroom is stupid. I totally agree. But... How much headroom do you think is enough? 30% over top load? Or 100%, 140%?

I have S12 430 with X2 939 @ 2400 + 7900GTX + the usual. How much do you think I draw from the wall? 254W was the highest I saw on my wattage meter, at the wall. Which makes a mere 203W taken from the PSU assuming it has 80% efficiency (it has more than that probably, up to 84%). I idle at 100W at the wall. My PSU is too big for me. I could be running on 350W easily. And I would still have lots of headroom. Oh, BTW - games won't push the system further than 230W at the wall. You've got to do Orthos + 3DMark + defrag + burning etc. Games just don't push the system enough.

Have you read any links that Amarantine posted? Sorry I couldn't post them - I'm not registered. Anyway, check some of them. It only takes a few mins to look at the tables and charts, see teh specs.

[Kougar]

How have tou measured that? Software from UPS?

This takes 298W in PCMark. Mesured by profesional PSU testing equipment. That why i do not belive in your power consumption. This is 298W from the wall. PSU is giving 256W to the hardware.

I'm afraid I don't trust software readings for exactly the reason you suggest, they cannot be used as solid fact! I first tested with a Extech 470 multimeter, and have since followed up with a Kill-a-Watt P3 tester. To be clear I only measured from the plug coming out of the system power supply, so the monitor/speakers were not included in the results.

The watercooling pump draws fair bit of power on its own when at full speed, so that will contribute a bit to the higher than expected figure. To test I first set the highest stable OC, then loaded down the CPU with Orthos dual-LargeFFT runs, and started ATI Tool and let it run in focus with a CD playing in the background.

Haha I'm genius. You are counting Watts taken from the wall right? So if your UPS is indicating 360W at load so it is probably like that. Why? Cause your PSU is working with a very low load (it is a 750W unit) it has very low EFFICIENCY. I'll count it for something like 72-75%. So
360*0,75 = 270W
And this is a probable load but still 40W to much for me. Maybe UPS is not so accurate like a prof. watt counting machine? So now ask your self a question if You want to pay for that 25% of energy that your PSU is just wasting ;)

The PC Power & Cooling unit is rated for 83% efficiency. You are indeed correct in that efficiency will change depending on the load and how the PSU was built, and efficiency trends will differ between individual PSU models. However before installing this one I previously used an Antec NeoHE 550watt power supply for this system, and recorded similar results with the same multimeter.

Regarding the quote from "Kater-Acem", specifically about operating the PSU at 100% of it's specifications... I can agree, but only one a single condition. The catch is to see what the continuous rating is for a PSU (It is usually not listed on power supplies in general), and to ensure that continiuous rating was measured at 50c. If the label or specs sheet does not mention this then in my respectful opinion it would be risky and unsafe to assume the label specs are "continuous"/sustained when instead they are likely only "peak" measurements. http://www.bjorn3d.com/photo/showphoto.php?photo=257&nocache=1 (http://www.bjorn3d.com/photo/showphoto.php?photo=257&nocache=1)

So monster PSU while idle will produce even more heat than a low wattage one.

This has not been the case with the PC P&C Quad I am have been stress testing, as "stressful" as a meager sub-50% load can be at any rate. ;) When performing the same torture test with the 550watt NeoHE unit the exhaust would be warmer and the PSU housing itself grew warm to the touch. I regret that I do not have actual numbers to give. Either way, both power supplies remained inudible over the other "quiet" fans I use.


My apologies for the very lengthy post here, and slightly OT at that. A friendly reminder to please keep this thread civil and courteous for all of our readers that wade through this thread. If nothing else, we can agree to disagree then. ;) Thanks! :icon_tiphat:

[Amarantine]

Regarding the quote from "Kater-Acem", specifically about operating the PSU at 100% of it's specifications... I can agree, but only one a single condition. The catch is to see what the continuous rating is for a PSU (It is usually not listed on power supplies in general), and to ensure that continiuous rating was measured at 50c. If the label or specs sheet does not mention this then in my respectful opinion it would be risky and unsafe to assume the label specs are "continuous"/sustained when instead they are likely only "peak" measurements.

Hmm we are talking about good PSU. Their label is never pick. Their label say what you can exactly tak from PSU. PSU's selled with cases like dunno tracer or codegen is different dark history ;)


This has not been the case with the PC P&C Quad I am have been stress testing, as "stressful" as a meager sub-50% load can be at any rate. When performing the same torture test with the 550watt NeoHE unit the exhaust would be warmer and the PSU housing itself grew warm to the touch

You are talking about two different psu's. Whole text of mine was about same producer and series power supply. It is obvious that NeoHe will be warmer than other supply's couse it is meant to be extremly silent.

So as You can see from what me and Kater are saying and showing (tests on other services) watts madness started by nvidia is a very very bad phenomenon. I really do understand buying 600W PSU for SLI and OC. Thing i do not understand is buying 600W or more for a single card. It is not true what You can read almost everywhert that more watts is better not counting how much power do you exactly need.

So after all these argument from our side you can do two things.
-Do not believe and still use PSU with wattage recommended by nvidia/ati
-Give this teory a try and try to mount your config on enermax 400W or equivalent (360W or more on +12V)

I recoment 2 one, if it won't work you can allways go back to your 750W unit ;)

EOT from my side. I've said all what I meant to :)

[darkorb]

I no you guys are saying that we dont need those OCZ 850watt psu's, but the sub 400 watt psu's your talking about still need to be high quality ones, and not noname garbage :)

[werty316]

So how about that Sonata III huh? :icon_tiphat:

[magic__frankie]

i tried to check in this forum this morning. i logged in an i found that i was banned from this forum with no reason specified. but i sure would like to know why.

[Amarantine?]

i tried to check in this forum this morning. i logged in an i found that i was banned from this forum with no reason specified. but i sure would like to know why.

Me too. My account is also banned

[Unregistered]

hi
amarantine..
may i know whats ur build in the sonata III you posted? in details please?
thanks

[nto888]

hey amarantine
whats your build in that sonata u did?

[nto888]

hey amarantine may i know whats your build in that sonata case?

[PP Mguire]

To the guys who where banned. Take a visit to Overclock3d.net. Read the post about the OCZ 750watt quad silencer i believe. Youll see that i agree with you, but only to a certain extent. Youll also see, where i laid out some pwnage over the modular capabilities. As to the one guy with the extremely large post asking if i was 5. Im sure if i was 5 i would be flaming you right about now, or even continuing in this stupid argument. ;)You buy what you want and fry shiz, ill buy what i want and know my PSU can handle my full system. As to the Sonata III my friend bought one last week, its a DAMN nice case.

[nto888]

i need to know if this build is good enough with the 500w psu that this case comes with

amd am2 m2n32-sli deluxe wifi
amd 6000+
ocz gold xtc pc2-6400 2gb ddr2-800mhz 5-5-5-12 dual channel
xfx 8800gts 320mb ddr3(or watever brand is better and not too costy)
500gig hd (2x250gig
dvd writer

am i missing something? it is my first time building a computer,
will i need cooling stuff? :help:

[Victor]

Maybe okay, nto888, however, I do recommend getting something slightly stronger specially if you do plan to OC.

check out our review as the review uses fairly similar hardware as your system.
http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1048&pageID=3091

[PP Mguire]

Since your a n00b i doubt youll be OCing. What brand is that 500watt PSU? Link by any chance?

[nto888]

yes actually im a noob, its my frist time building a computer. neways
it is the 500w earthwatts that comes with the case that i have
i want something strong, im not planing to OC, neither going to buy 2 video cards(SLI i suppose) :ahhhhh:

i believe AMD is a little way back and intel is taking over
i dont plan to spend a fortune, my budget is ~1300$ just for the tower.
so what do you guys suggest? i want to be able to play recent games.
should i stick with what i wanted? or go for intel? and spend extra buck? :help:
basically what i want to know is what i can do with the case and powersupply that i have, im not going to mod it or watsoever.

by the way what are the advantages of OCing? should i OC? is it better? any risks?
i also read the review for the case, very helpful! and so the forum itself!

thanks again for the replies and time for responding to a n00b like me, i really appreciate! :icon_tiphat:

[PP Mguire]

If your getting that AMD machine then you should be fine with the 6000+. For right now as long as you have an 8800 GPU you should be able to max everything out. OCing can have its advantages but when your dealing with the higher up systems there really isnt THAT much of a difference. Where games are concernd ive only noticed a 5-7fps difference between the AM2s and C2Ds honestly. Your case and power supply should be plenty for a high end non-SLI rig like your building.

Key things,
8800 GPU
2gig of ram
decent dual core processor
Will keep you going for a while as of now.

I know with Vista coming along you can have over 3gig and its becoming popular already but for now most games are DX9 still and its just not worth the extra cost of DDR2. Trust me, i have 3gig and it really only speeds up my load times and make my 3dmark score higher.

[Unregistered]

Is the Sonata III large enough for a 8800 GTX card ?
Thanks.

[Victor]

the sonata III should barely fit the 8800GTX without problem, however, you will not be able to use teh front 120mm fan. it's a really tight fit, as I think it will leave you with a few mm of spaces between the edge of the card and the HD cage but nonetheless it should fit. The space from the edge of teh PCI expansion to the HD cage is about 28cm and most if not all the 8800GTX card should be slightly less than that so it shouldn't be a problem.

[Covids]

If you say there's enough room to fit an nVidia 8800GTX, is there a front 120mm fan installed or not? I ask because I really love the SonataIII case and I want to have an 8800GTX in my system as well but I'm afraid 1 120mm fan at the back won't cool it enough so I'd feel more at ease with an extra 120mm installed (also to keep the HDD's cooler)

[Victor]

hi, sorry for late reply, didn't see the post.

The 120mm front fan will block the 8800gtx from being installed. I measured that there's about 28 cm of space from the back of the expansion slot to the hard drive cage, so if your card and the fan stays within that length, you maybe able to use it (try some thinner fans and maybe you can get it in there).

[Sadasius]

AHHH lol, but thanks i appreciate that!! And i will have to say though, that you said the inside is pretty much the same as the I and II. I have, and own I and II and the inside is the exact same. If this is true with III then there is easily a manageable way to hide your cables. For instance like with the harddrives you can just switch them around. Just takes a little patience thats all ;)

Damn I never thought of that about turning the hard drives around. I thought I was neat before but I guess not. I totally overlooked that possibility. Now I cannot wait to go home and try that out as my bays are the same way and my Antec cobra cables are pushed up against the window. Thanks a million! :icon_tiphat:

EDIT: Well I tried doing it with my case and could not do it. The hard drive bays are riveted to the back wall. I will have to cut openings in the back of the bay and motherboard back wall and do it then. But still thanks for the tip.

[Unregistered]

Excellent and comprehensive review!

The only thing I would like to point out is: The statement indicating that the placement of the front fan does not help hard disk cooling is incorrect.

I have installed the front fan (120 mm tricool) in my case with 4 seagate 300 G hard drives and can confirm that they run much cooler. Even to the touch, the difference is very significant.

Jean-Guy Richard

[PP Mguire]

EDIT: Well I tried doing it with my case and could not do it. The hard drive bays are riveted to the back wall. I will have to cut openings in the back of the bay and motherboard back wall and do it then. But still thanks for the tip.Sorry for the late reply, barely in the review forums but i would personaly have to look at your case. Im sure i could figure out a way. I mean they said there is no way of cable management in the Sonata but i proved that wrong. I just dont know where to look for a Xaser III tower :/

I have installed the front fan (120 mm tricool) in my case with 4 seagate 300 G hard drives and can confirm that they run much cooler. Even to the touch, the difference is very significant.You are very right. My old Maxtor 80gig and my friends WD 80gig both ran really hot. We always used a 120mm fan in the front to keep our video cards and HDs cool.

[shandu]

Hello!

I want to buy this Antec Sonata III case, and i was wondering about its PSU.
Is it enough for my configuration: ???

INTEL Core 2 Duo E2180 2.0GHz 1MB 800MHz S775
Asus S775 P5K,P35/ICH9,1333,DDR2 1066,CrossFire,eSATA,2 x1394,GLAN
WD 400 GB WD4000AAKS, SATAII, 7200 rpm 16MB cache
8800GT or HD 3850
Samsung DVD-RW 20x S-ATA Black
PQI DDRII 2GB PC800 CL5

I will OC! And probably change cpu after some time for something stronger.

thanx

[Victor]

i can't say 100% sure but based on our own test with the PSU and the 8800 cards, I would say that you shouldn't have any problem with that PSU and your system setup. Though if you do plan to OC, I probably would consider soemthing maybe beefier.

[shandu]

thank you!
i have ordered the case!

[PP Mguire]

It should be fine.

[i_tako]

Dear all...
Thank you for your efforts to review this case and power so well.

I have a question: Is it possible to change 80mm fan on Antec 500W EarthWatts? I want to put some fan that is more quite, like xilence or noctua, although it is still quite...

Do anyone know what is the model of 80mm fan on antec 500W EarthWatts, or what is the loudness of this fan in dB?

I am also going to change 120mm fan.

I bought this case month ago, it is brilliant! I have paid for it about 105 eur.

Dusan

[PP Mguire]

The fan in the PSU is pretty silent. I dont reccomend changing it.

[asterasy]

I don't recommend changing the fan in any PSU :s

[Victor]

Dear all...
Thank you for your efforts to review this case and power so well.

I have a question: Is it possible to change 80mm fan on Antec 500W EarthWatts? I want to put some fan that is more quite, like xilence or noctua, although it is still quite...

Do anyone know what is the model of 80mm fan on antec 500W EarthWatts, or what is the loudness of this fan in dB?

I am also going to change 120mm fan.

I bought this case month ago, it is brilliant! I have paid for it about 105 eur.

Dusan

I am not sure if it's possible to change the fan on the PSU. I dont' see why not though as most PSU fan are simply regular fan that connect to the fan header on the PCB on the PSU.

Like others have posted, the fan on the PSU is fairly quiet so I don't really see the need to change it as well.

As for the 120mm. I think it's also fairly quiet as well and don't really see the need to change it though it's easier to change it if you want.

[i_tako]

As for the 120mm. I think it's also fairly quiet as well and don't really see the need to change it though it's easier to change it if you want.

Here is the reason why I am thinking of changing fans: I compare antec 120mm fan, with noctua 120mm fan:
http://www.antec.com/pdf/manuals/tricool_install.html
http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=productview&products_id=5&lng=en

At the same speed of 1200 RPM, noctua has noise level of 17 dB and airflow of 81 m³/h, while antec tricool fan has noise of 25 dBA and airflow of 66 m³/h.

What do you think, is this difference perceivable for ears? And is airflow difference important?
Thank you.

[Victor]

I have not tried the Noctua fan so I am not sure if that fan is quieter than the Antec's own fan. Looking at the specs, it looks like a good fan. 8dB could be noticeable if your got a sharp ear. Also, with that better airflow, you may even get better cooling.

Sometimes we can go simply with the number as sometimes it can be deceiving. My experience with the Sonata PSU, case fan is that they are quiet and in day to day use, the system runs cool and quiet. I guess if the noise bothers you, definitely go for a better CFM and lower noise fan.

[Xantor]

Noctua fans are definitely a good pick if you want silent computing. SilentPCReview wrote a review and said that Noctua were the best fans in the sense that they gave better airflow at lower sound output. You can also use the adapters that come with the fan (ULNA, if I remember correctly), they slow down the fan to make it even quieter while maintaining good airflow.

[PP Mguire]

Back in my old forums i once knew a guy that swore by Noctua fans. He would literaly dare people to use them, then bet them they would like them. Kinda crepy.

[Xantor]

Back in my old forums i once knew a guy that swore by Noctua fans. He would literaly dare people to use them, then bet them they would like them. Kinda crepy.
I have a Noctua fan myself and they are really quiet. I can't say if it's quieter than other fans, but this one is pretty silent. I read that the newer Noctua fans, the NF-P12-1300, are even better. Too bad they are rly expensive. If only Noctua sold in bulk or in 2-fan packages.

[Unregistered]

Also, it is not the optimal placement of the front case fan since it is placed behind the hard drive cage, it won’t help to cool the hard drives.

That is incorrect, since the fan is sucking the air from the front of the case the incoming air will cool the hard drives because it HAS to go past the hard drives.
Not only that, but it cools the drives better because the air flow is from a wider area than the concentrated vortex that leaves the fan.

Remember, the air has to come from somewhere!

[PP Mguire]

True say mate but the problem lies now with you are now technicaly blowing hot air into your PC ;)