8800GTS or 2900XT ??

[Pat123]

Which one is best, both the same'ish price.

[werty316]

If you are talking about the 8800GTS 640MB version, then I would go witht eh 8800TS.

The noise and heat issues that the HD2900XT cards have a a big turnoff for me.

[Pat123]

Yeh the 640. whats the performance difference tho.. Heat and noise dont bother me..

[sushrukh]

I prefer going 4 the XT.In many reviews, the XT has even outperformed the GTX.

[werty316]

Yeh the 640. whats the performance difference tho.. Heat and noise dont bother me..
In that case the HD2900XT is the better card as it edges out the 8800GTS 640MB by a bit and with more polished drivers, it could be better.

If you want an idea of how loud the HD2900XT is, there is a the video in the link below that shows just that:
http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/432/7/

I prefer going 4 the XT.In many reviews, the XT has even outperformed the GTX.
Overall the GTX wins.

Performance per wattage on the HD2900XT isn't as great as the GTX and GTS cards.

[Bio-Hazard]

I prefer going 4 the XT.In many reviews, the XT has even outperformed the GTX.
Share whatever you're smoking please, the GTS 640 or 320 are both better buys..........:icon_tiphat:

I bet you couldn't even run one of those ovens in your part of the world, heck, they cause heat related shutdowns here in the US and it's not even full summer yet.
I also haven't seen a review where the ATi card wins in DX10 benchmarks, not even with the newest drivers.

[sushrukh]

Share whatever you're smoking please, the GTS 640 or 320 are both better buys..........:icon_tiphat:

I also haven't seen a review where the ATi card wins in DX10 benchmarks, not even with the newest drivers.

COJ DX10 Benchmarking :-http://www.legitreviews.com/article/504/3/

http://www.legitreviews.com/images/reviews/504/coj_benchmark_1a.jpg

http://www.legitreviews.com/images/reviews/504/coj_benchmark_2.jpg

http://www.legitreviews.com/images/reviews/504/coj_benchmark_2a.jpg

In COJ DX10 1600x1200, the XT did beat the GTX.In all the COJ DX10 tests,the XT were always faster than the GTS 640MB.GTS 320MB doesn't even come into consideration while the 640MB is inferior than the XT.

----------------------------------------------------------------------


Conclusions


ATI RADEON HD 2900 XT (R600) 512MB PCI-E is generally very successful for its price. It obviously and definitely outperforms the competing GeForce 8800 GTS. But we still feel that drivers do not allow the novelty to spread wings, especially with AA. So, let's wait for updates.

Meanwhile, we can state the following:

Excellent performance for 1600x1200 even with AA+AF
Fully-fledged DX10 support;
HQ anisotropy by default
New AA modes


XT wins here too in the Dx10 based COJ.

Link :- http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/video/r600-part3.html

[Bio-Hazard]

You might want to read the complete review from [H] and Nate at Legit Reviews. Neither has ever recomended the ATI card.

With the long delay and rumors that the HD 2000 Series would destroy all on DX10 applications. The past 24 hours have been an eye opener for all those in PC industry as that has not been the case at all. The ball is in AMD's court and for their sake I hope they can get their drivers working right for DirectX 10 applications as right now the game demos from Techland/Ubisoft and Capcom don't look too hot on AMD/ATI cards. I guess the PR folks over at ATI and AMD are saying DAAMIT right about now... whoops... ;)

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/505/3/

I like the way you only post the stuff that fits your needs and that you don't represent the whole story.

[Bio-Hazard]

And lets not forget Nates latest on the 2 cards.

The Legit Bottom Line: The Company of Heroes DirectX 10 patch is finally here! The ATI Radeon HD 2900 XT doesn't have enough muscle to beat out the NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GTS 640MB in Company of Heroes when using the latest drivers from both companies.

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/507/3/

[Bio-Hazard]

And another with the latest drivers.


The Bottom Line



We hoped newer driver revisions would improve performance on the ATI Radeon HD 2900 XT. With the newer driver we used for this evaluation we did not see any “magic” happen when it comes to real world gaming experiences at resolutions at and above 1600x1200. The ATI Radeon HD 2900 XT is not even a match for even the much less expensive and much less power hungry 320 MB GeForce 8800 GTS.

http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTM1MSw2LCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==

[werty316]

So the HD2900XT is faster than the 8800GTX in Call of Juarez rendered in DX10, big whoop as thats only one out of the many games where the HD2900XT does out perform the 8800GTX.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/431/17/
http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=650&p=2
http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=645

So you would choose the HD2900XT because it is faster than the 8800GTX and 8800GTS in one game?

Overall the G80 is the better choice.

[Bio-Hazard]

So the HD2900XT is faster than the 8800GTX in Call of Juarez rendered in DX10, big whoop as thats only one out of the many games where the HD2900XT does out perform the 8800GTX.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/431/17/
http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=650&p=2
http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=645

So you would choose the HD2900XT because it is faster than the 8800GTX and 8800GTS in one game?

Overall the G80 is the better choice.
QFT......;) Someone isn't seeing the complete picture here.
And lets not forget about the power requirements and the heat and blow dryer cooler.

[sushrukh]

Everybody can/should have their own opinions & from all the reviews that i've read,i've understood that XT is faster & more feature rich than the GTS.So, i'll prefer going for XT.This is my own opinion though.There's no need that everybody will agree to it.

[westy87]

If you want an idea of how loud the HD2900XT is, there is a the video in the link below that shows just that:
http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/432/7/



Woah, when people said loud, i didnt expect that loud! I think a lot of the people that say the loudness of the card won't worry them, should watch this then

[Bio-Hazard]

Everybody can/should have their own opinions & from all the reviews that i've read,i've understood that XT is faster & more feature rich than the GTS.So, i'll prefer going for XT.This is my own opinion though.There's no need that everybody will agree to it.
No worries there, I totally disagree with your ideas and thoughts about the HD2900...............:icon_tiphat:.

[sushrukh]

I totally disagree with your ideas and thoughts about the HD2900...............:icon_tiphat:.

So do i. :icon_tiphat:

[werty316]

i've understood that XT is faster & more feature rich than the GTS.
On paper it does and theoretical values just give you an idea of what to expect.

[Bio-Hazard]

So do i. :icon_tiphat:
And is someone supposed to care????????:ahhhhh:

Ain't happenin............:icon_tiphat:

[darkorb]

wow that is extremely loud

i would just liek to say one thing though, the FPS all 3 of these cards rae getting in Call of Juarez is completely GAY.

25 fps in 1600x1200 i think it was. that is F****** brutal

[westy87]

Maybe we should all go out and buy a 2900 so AMD has some $ to design a better card lol. Maybe then they compete and force the market prices to come down for the future

Only joking of course

[Bio-Hazard]

It may be a joke about the competing, but you are so very close to the truth, and just think, up to a little over a year ago, I was a huge ATI/AMD fan.

[Pat123]

I know the 8800GTS is proberbly the better overall performer, but i cant help but want a X2900XT.. has serious appeal no idea why lol..

[darkorb]

it sux up alot more power, and is veyr loud, and puts out alot more heat

its ur call

[sushrukh]

Which mobo are u gonna put your new card Pat ? Don't worry to buy the XT if u can bear the loudness & the power consumption Pat.In some reviews,it can be inferior to the GTS but i'm quite sure it's driver related.Nvidia has this problem earlier too.So, i think,this can be cured in the future releases of drivers.You just can't ignore the 512 bit bus & the 320 unified stream processors.The current drivers seem to restrict its capabilities.Nvidia has improved with their 158.xx drivers & so on.XT will too with the future driver but the heat & power consumption issues will be there untill AMD will shrink the die to 65nm but i don't think that these issues are so big like some are referring.Previous to my Vista install, i heard only bad words for it which i also thought true but it's not actually.Vista is a very nice OS with no problems at all if u have proper drivers.So, do what your mind says u to do.

[Bio-Hazard]

I know the 8800GTS is proberbly the better overall performer, but i cant help but want a X2900XT.. has serious appeal no idea why lol..
If you were to water cool the card (put it in it's own loop or you'll kill the performance of your CPU cooling) and get a new extremely high priced PSU, they might be fun to play around with (OC'ing) in "CANNED" benchmarks. But other than that, until they fix some of those issues, the 8800GTS is the much better choise. The 8800GTS has overall the same performance, runs cooler and quieter, you don't need to buy a new PSU, and most importantly, even the 8800GTS 640 is close to $100 cheaper than the HD2900XT here in the states (with rebates).

[sushrukh]

Two of my friends has bought the XT & they r running it with a 500/600W PSU(CM Extreme Power 600 & Antec 550W).You only need to buy an Extremely high priced PSU in case of running Crossfire.Other than a branded 500/600W PSU is just fine.If any website or review is saying that you need a 800/1000W PSU to run a single XT,they are simply not telling the truth Pat.Btw, let us know,which PSU are u using currently Pat.And yes, if money is an issue,then u can buy the GTS.Just remember Pat that any PSU that can handle a GTS can also handle an XT.

ATI Radeon™ HD 2900 Series – System Requirements

System Requirements:

ATI Overdrive vs normal usage requirements for power supply connectors PCI Express® based PC is required with one dual-width X16 lane graphics slot available on the motherboard

Connection to 550 Watt (750 for CrossFire™) or greater power supply with two 2x3-pin PCIe® power connectors is required.

For enhanced performance with ATI Overdrive™, a power supply with one 2x3-pin and one 2x4-pin PCIe ® power connector is required

[Bio-Hazard]

We're talking the 8 pin connector that's "REQUIRED" for OC'ing the thing like all the reviews stated, granted you can try and make your own adapter, but are you willing to risk a high dollar card on something like that. I don't think so. It's a given that you can run a XT on any quality PSU, but most folks I know that know anything about computers and that are willing to put out this kind of money for a "OVER PRICED" card will want to OC the thing, and those PSU's aren't cheap.
And alwo remember that PSU wattage is not the issue when it comes to powering these cards, it's apms per rail, wattage is the least of the worries, so lets get that perfactly clear.................;)

And just for the record, I wouldn't trust anything that comes out of Tom's HW, they write what they are paid to and are extremely biased, and not worth reading......just MHO of the crap site.

[sushrukh]

Temperature Tests of XT & GTS 640MB :-

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/7430/heatqr5.gif

Sound Tests :-

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/1474/soundvr6.gif

The temp & noice levels are larger than others but they are not too high that some are referring.The problem is much bigger at the power consumption area though.It takes more power than the GTX,as we know.

http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/946/msi29xtg13cx1.gif




"Final Thoughts

So, there it is... the new ATI Radeon HD 2900 XT.

The new drivers have helped the card a lot - it really does go from a joke of a product to something that you could recommend. The biggest problem we see is that AMD may have already done the damage by not waiting another week or two for the new drivers to come out.

The biggest problem with the card would have to be the amount of power it draws alongside the fact that this in turn makes it operate at higher temperatures. It is literally a mini heater in winter and we do not want to know what it is like in summer.

Onto the positive points, the package from MSI is great! VIVO, HDMI Convertor, HDCP along with all those other handy cables and of course Black Box Orange Box, it has a lot going for it. Throw in the fact that it is really about the same price as a standard GeForce 8800GTS 640MB and it is easy to see why you would pick this card up over the other.

You of course cannot forget the fact that AMD is really on the ball in the driver department. We should continue to see more and more performance out of the card as time goes on meaning that it could become quite the killer card. Yes, it is late to the market but as long as people realize it is a good card AMD should be alright and give them a chance for the next generation of cards due out later this year.

On a side note, we spent some extra time with the MSI Radeon HD 2900 XT to see what it was really capable of. Trying some max OC on the Intel Core 2 E6600 @ 3.7GHz we got within a 1000 marks (3DMark06) of the XFX 8800 Ultra XXX running at the same overclocked CPU speed. It is clear the card has potential but it is going to take another driver release or two until we see more serious power out of the product.


- Pros
Package including Orange Box
Price vs. Performance is very good
New drivers offering better performance
Impressive overclocking
Manages to give more expensive 8800GTX run for its money

- Cons
Power requirements
Operating temperature
1GB DDR-4 version coming out soon


Rating – 8.5 out of 10 and TweakTown’s “MUST HAVE” Best Value Award!"

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/2506/awardvaluelw5.gif

Link :- http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/1115/msi_radeon_hd_2900_xt_512mb_graphics_card/index.html



" Performance wise the Radeon HD 2900XT is fairly competitive with the GeForce 8800 GTX, particularly when pricing is taken into account. The most expensive Radeon HD 2900XT is over 20% cheaper than the cheapest GeForce 8800 GTX at the moment. This is impressive considering most games only saw the Radeon HD 2900XT loose by a small margin. Games such as Lost Planet, S.T.A.L.K.E.R and Far Cry all saw the Radeon HD 2900XT perform within a 10% margin of the GeForce 8800 GTX.

Then games such as Company of Heroes and F.E.A.R saw the GeForce 8800 GTX delivering a little over 20% more performance, with Supreme Commander being the only real blow out. Finally, games such as Prey favoured the Radeon HD 2900XT, while X3: Reunion gave it a comfortable 24% performance victory over the GeForce 8800 GTX. The Radeon HD 2900XT really is a mixed bag of results at this point in time, but for the most part it is a very good product for just $400-$450 US. So if you are happy to spend GTX money, should you? Or is it best to save the $100+ by settling for the Radeon HD 2900XT?

This is a tough question and there are a few things you have to take into consideration. First and foremost the Radeon HD 2900XT is a very new product and is going through a number of teething issues. There is a good chance the performance of the Radeon HD 2900XT will improve in time and we may very well see it surpass the GeForce 8800 GTX in almost all games. Then again, things could stay the way they are, so we wouldn’t buy the Radeon HD 2900XT banking on it becoming a hell of a lot better than it is now.

The GeForce 8800 GTX is a very well established product and although you will pay more for it, you know exactly what you are getting. Furthermore, the GeForce 8800 GTX uses less power, generates less heat and overclocks well without needing an 8-pin power connector. Availability is also much better and picking up a GeForce 8800 GTX graphics card should not be much of a challenge. Nevertheless for $400-$450, the Radeon HD 2900XT provides a ship load of performance and at this price it is hard to refuse.

Picking between the two is very hard, but I think if it were me making this purchase the Radeon HD 2900XT would be my choice. The GeForce 8800 GTX is an exceptional performer, but Nvidia are simply asking too much for their high-end graphics cards and a $100 saving is significant, and it is money that could be pumped into more storage, memory or even processing power. In time we will know for sure which will have been the better pick, as drivers mature and more games get released. "

Link :- http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=650&p=6

So, u can understand Pat that with new drivers,people are comparing XT to the GTX,not the GTS.

[Bio-Hazard]

Fix all your links PLEASE.

And the heat is a huge issue when installed in a closed case, thank you very much. I wouldn't put one of those in my chassis without water cooling and I have better air flow in my case than most others out there (except for other UFO owners)........................:)

[sushrukh]

And just for the record, I wouldn't trust anything that comes out of Tom's HW, they write what they are paid to and are extremely biased, and not worth reading......just MHO of the crap site.

This has been posted in the Toms forum by an user of HD2900XT.Tom's admin or any official didn't write this.And,this is the official power requirement announcement from the ATI/AMD too.So, it's valid.

http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/8913/37903367yv1.jpg

Link :- http://ati.amd.com/products/Radeonhd2900/requirements.html

[Bio-Hazard]

One of these days you'll get the point, I'm not arguing the minimal power requirment, I'm pointing out the fact that if you want to properly OC the card, you'll need to have both the 6 and 8 pin connectors. Plain and simple, granted you can do a bit through other after market programs (not CCC) but there's no garranty that it's going to be stable of safe.
All the reviews in the world that you post is not going to change the fact that the card uses about 100w more power than the 8800 cards and that they run hotter with a huge heat dump intoo the chassis. Every single review that you've posted (except Toms) I've already read at least one or 2 times, and I'm sure that most others have as well, you're just wasting forum space. The card overall does not beat a $100 dollar cheaped card regardless of what you may think and most of the reviews state that in there reviews at one place or another.
The card is not and does not perform as it was desinged to, if it did, AMD/ATI would have released the XTX version as well, but the power requirments and heat dump were to great and made the XTX unstable, the XT is just barely under those limits.
Even with the newest drivers out, the XT does not "OVERALL" beat any of the top 8800 cards, it wins some and looses some, so I don't know how you can call this a win, it doesn't in my book. I call it a tie and so do most others I know that are looking at buying a new card.
It comes down to the point of, are you willing to pay more for a card that runs hotter, uses more power (100w) to get equal performance, I guess if you are made out of money or just a simple "FAN BOY" I guess you could get a XT. But for those that have a tight budget, the 8800 is the beter choise.

[sushrukh]

Actually i'm a fanboy of nvidia & i've never used any other card except nvidia in my life but i still think that XT is better than the GTS if you can bear the temp & the noice levels.But,it's your opinion Bio.I respect your opinion but i can't ignore that, most website reviews i've seen are recommending the XT over the GTS.This is not my conclusion.If you have seen my previous post,i've quoted the conclusions from both the Tweaktown & the LegionHardware.com reviews & it's quite clear that what they are preferring to buy.Most websites i've seen are saying kinda same story.

[Bio-Hazard]

Whatever........I'm done here.

[werty316]

Don't expect those kind of temperature results since the card in that review was run on a testbench setup plus you have to take in the ambient temperature as a factor which I don't think they mentioned. The card would get much warmer in a closed case environment.

You know there is a reason why ATI is supposedly skipping the R650 and moving right on to the R700 early next year.

Two of my friends has bought the XT & they r running it with a 500/600W PSU(CM Extreme Power 600 & Antec 550W).You only need to buy an Extremely high priced PSU in case of running Crossfire.Other than a branded 500/600W PSU is just fine.If any website or review is saying that you need a 800/1000W PSU to run a single XT,they are simply not telling the truth Pat.Btw, let us know,which PSU are u using currently Pat.And yes, if money is an issue,then u can buy the GTS.Just remember Pat that any PSU that can handle a GTS can also handle an XT.
Its funny how thery don't mention the amount of amps required as that is one big factor and I am sure the HD2900XT requires more than the 8800GTS.

[Chakka]

This thread has turned into all the threads that I have read about this debate. It was my hope that the ati 2900 was going to be superior to the nvidia 8800gtx - that would have meant lower prices on both products.

Unfortunately that did not turn out to be the case so based upon my unscientific eye on pricing, it looks like the price of all of these products have gone up since the introduction of the 2900 - so it doesnt matter which one you buy, we as users all lost this time around imo.

[werty316]

We the consumers have lost much long ago when GPU manufacturers gouged the prices of their products to outrageous amounts.

[PP Mguire]

I respect your opinion but i can't ignore that, most website reviews i've seen are recommending the XT over the GTS.Here is my $0.02. I dont see WHY they are recomending it over the GTS 640mb. Becasue its quite clear its pretty much a tie and the GTS is COOLER, QUIETER, and $100 cheaper. Thats all hes trying to point out. Why get the XT and pay more for the same and get the extra heat and power consumption. I say, quit arguing for the sake of trying to be right. Im POOR, and since im POOR, i got with whats better for cheaper which is obviously the GTS.

[sushrukh]

Here is my $0.02. I dont see WHY they are recomending it over the GTS 640mb. Becasue its quite clear its pretty much a tie and the GTS is COOLER, QUIETER, and $100 cheaper. Thats all hes trying to point out. Why get the XT and pay more for the same and get the extra heat and power consumption. I say, quit arguing for the sake of trying to be right. Im POOR, and since im POOR, i got with whats better for cheaper which is obviously the GTS.

I think,they are recommending it bcoz they can see that in some cases,XT is giving performance near equal or even better than even the GTX which is further $100 or more pricey than the XT.

No point in arguing though.Let the buyer (Pat) decide what to buy.

[PP Mguire]

Well they are totaly missing the catch. And ill share it with you cause i really see no point in arguing. Why spend 100 extra bucks for a few frames difference with the added heat and power consumption. Just not worth it when the GTS 640 will clearly rox0r.

[Pat123]

In britain they are the same price.. :)

[Bio-Hazard]

I guess that's a good thing, depending on which card you're looking at getting.........;) Right now here in the states, depending on which maker you want to go with, the HD 2900XT is as much as $100 more than a 8800GTS 640.

[PP Mguire]

Wow the same? As in the XT is cheaper? Or the GTS is more?

[Bio-Hazard]

Checkout some the European etailers and then you'll know for sure..............;)

[Pat123]

Cheapest 8800GTS 640mb i could find
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=496748


http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=594382

Ok well theres a little bit of a difference but i would go with the XFX 8800GTS which is the same price so.. imo they are very similar in price..

[darkorb]

whats VAT?

[Bio-Hazard]

Value Added Tax, like sales tax.

[PP Mguire]

In other words, money that the government takes from you.

[Pat123]

Yes and its a damned rip off...

[Bio-Hazard]

Isn't the EU wonderfull................;) The VAT has allways been high, but with the EU coming into power they raised everything to pay for the EU officals new homes. Other than that, they don't do a whole lot of nothing.

[Pat123]

They really do nothing at all.. The UK is by far the worst for tax.. There are soooooo many raxes and alsorts, they want to bring in a 'green tax' which means the bigger your cars engine the higher you will have to pay. Import tax always happens to be a little bit more than 17.5%, its damn un fair, we buy something from the US and pay TAX on the item then get hit heavily when it comes through customs, i got charged tax on second hand goods :S Its really pathetic..

[Bio-Hazard]

That's part of the reason I came back to the USA.............I lived in Europe for over 20 years, and after they came up with the EU idea and started increasing all the taxes, I figured it was time to come home. Before the EU came into being I was paying somewhere around 40% tax with everything combinedand when I left it was already up to 45%. Things were getting out of hand pretty darn quick and the more you made the more you got nailed, to a point that you came home with less in your paycheck. It started getting to the point that people that worked where I did, didn't want to do overtime anymore because their bring home pay would be less.

[Pat123]

indeed. But we really do get taxed on everything.. They want to bring toll roads in aswell as Road TAX Meaning even more money.. speed cameras that save lives..??? bull **** If thats what they are for why are they on nearly every road in britain, the 'police' force make stupid amounts of money off these things, then dont even put it back into the public, they put it somewhere but no-one knows where.. i think the tax over there is like 10% or something isnt it?? Council tax is constantly rising, energy bills are constantly rising, income tax, tax on selling your house, petrol tax.. just anoys me so much..

[Bio-Hazard]

Taxes over here depends pretty much where you live, except for the Fed Income Tax, that's based on what you earn. Each city, county and state in the US has a different tax rate for everything from property tax to sales tax and income tax, so it's hard to figure out for the entire country

[darkorb]

we get taxed 14% on everything in canada

[sushrukh]

Yea, it really sucks but you are talking abut the 17.5% tax Pat & in my country, there's a 36% tax on all incoming products be it a gift item, a 2nd hand product, a company replacement.This customs guys get more money by taking bribes than their actual sallary.Bribes in the sense bcoz i don't think they deposit all the money to the Govt.A huge portion of the money go to their pockets & not to the Govt.

[Pat123]

OUCH sush man lol.. thats unlucky..