Help with Athlon X2 multplier and DDR2 memory speed

[nebucanazza]

I have an Athlon X2 4000+@2.1GHz and Transcend DDR2@800MHz RAM. Now this processor has a max 10.5x multiplier with 200MHz base clock. Since the memory only runs at integer divisions of this frequency, it works out to 2100/6 = 350MHz(i.e. 700MHz effective).

Which config is better: The processor at 2.1GHz and memory running at 700Mhz or the processor running at 2.0GHz with the memory now running at full capacity 800MHz? I am currently using the latter setting, achieved by reducing the multiplier to 10x.

Of course, in an ideal scenario I would have liked to overclock the hell out of it to run at 2.4GHz with the memory running at 800MHz:lol:

[sushrukh]

Welcome man.Good to see someone from my country.

processor running at 2.0GHz with the memory now running at full capacity 800MHz?

I prefer this one.

[nebucanazza]

Welcome man.Good to see someone from my country.



I prefer this one.

Thanks...I am actually from Calcutta too, working in B'lore.:grin:

[sushrukh]

Thanks...I am actually from Calcutta too, working in B'lore.:grin:

Even better.Enjoy your stay here.:smile:

[werty316]

Why do you prefer that setting sush?

I would go with the 2.1GHz CPU with 700MHz memory speed as memory performance isn't as important as CPU performance to me.

Because that chip uses an old multiplier why just overclock your X2 4000+ so that your memory is running at its 800Mhz rated spec?

[sushrukh]

Why do you prefer that setting sush?

I would go with the 2.1GHz CPU with 700MHz memory speed as memory performance isn't as important as CPU performance to me.

Because you chip uses an old multiplier why just overclock your X2 4000+ so that your memory is running at its 800Mhz rated spec?

i'm just saying it bcoz i thought 100 Mhz more memory clock is better than only 100mhz more CPU clock.If he could go higher for his CPU than only 100Mhz,i would surely suggest what you have suggested but to me, 100Mhz more memory clock is better than 100 mhz more CPU clock.I could be wrong too.

[werty316]

Yeah but you do know the stock speed of the X2 4000+ is 2.1GHz so why would you decrease its stock speed just so your memory is running at its rated speed? An easier solution would be just to overclock the CPU.

[sushrukh]

i think you must have missed some of his points.I'm not trying to decrese his stock speed.he,himself said this.

The processor at 2.1GHz and memory running at 700Mhz or the processor running at 2.0GHz with the memory now running at full capacity 800MHz? I am currently using the latter setting, achieved by reducing the multiplier to 10x.


He said that if he has to run his CPU at full speed ( that's 2.1 Ghz ) ,then his ram will run in 700Mhz but if he decrease his CPU speed to 2.0,then his ram will be able to run at full speed (that's DDR2 800).So, i'm prefering the later option.

[werty316]

I don't think you are getting my point.

So you would buy a CPU and decrease its clockspeed so you can have your memory running at its rated speed even when there is the choice to overclock?

Simple math with for his CPU:
400Mhz (memory freq) x 6 = 2400Mhz (CPU clockspeed)
2400Mhz / 10.5 = 228Mhz HTT

[sushrukh]

You also not getting my point.I'm not saying him anything & how much OC he should do.He just asked & he has already provided two options to choose from & i choose the later one.Mind you,the options have been provided by him,not by me.I'm just picking one option from those two which he has already provided.

Which config is better: The processor at 2.1GHz and memory running at 700Mhz or the processor running at 2.0GHz with the memory now running at full capacity 800MHz? I am currently using the latter setting, achieved by reducing the multiplier to 10x.

[werty316]

Whoosh, right over your head. Never mind.

Plain simple either solution would make no difference since the frequency difference is only 100Mhz.

[sushrukh]

Whatever you say friend. :icon_tiphat:

[nebucanazza]

Aah..do you guys need to fight over this? Werty, overclocking my processor to 2.4 GHz would have been the ideal solution, but I don't really wanna do that.I did mention this in my original post. Getting custom coolers and cases is difficult here and I don't wanna spend a bunch on that right now.

So the bottomline is whether the 100MHz of memory speed increase is better than running the processor at 100MHz higher. When I say better, I am referring to real-life performance in games and other system intensive tasks. I was kinda hoping someone would have already done such a comparison, but I guess I gotta do it myself.

[werty316]

In that case you'll benefit more with your CPU set at 2.1GHz as appose to 2.0GHz.

If your CPU is at an acceptable temperature level, why not overclocking it? You don't necessarily need a good cooler to overclock as they help to keep your CPU temperature lower when compared to a stock cooler.

[nebucanazza]

So a 300MHz overclock with the stock cooler might be actually possible? I would need to increase the core clock to 225 MHz to get 2.36GHz with a 10.5 x multiplier(and memory now running at 786MHz). My motherboard is a lowly Asus M2N-MX, which is not an enthusiast class board.

I am apprehensive as I just bought the system a few days ago, and don't wanna blow it up/void warranty so soon. Call it first time overclocker jitters:lol:

[sushrukh]

Don't worry Nebu.You can easily Overclock your CPU & add 300Mhz to the speed using the stock cooler & you won't have to buy any 3rd party coolers for that.I'm also using a stock cooler & i can easily OC to add extra 500mhz.It'll not harm your CPU friend because it's a rather small OC & your CPU is able to handle that at ease.But, just do it step by step.Ist do a 100Mhz OC & see the temperature increase,then go for the 200 Mhz & then 300Mhz.In all these steps, keep a track of the CPU temps.If it's getting too high compared to that what it was before the overclock,then decrease your OC a bit.You can get a 300Mhz OC easily using the stock cooler.Just keep a track of the CPU temp.That's all.Let us know.

[nebucanazza]

I looked up some reviews of the X2 4000+ Brisbane and apparently the stock cooler does allow a decent overclock. I will try it out sometime this week and report the results.

[sushrukh]

I looked up some reviews of the X2 4000+ Brisbane and apparently the stock cooler does allow a decent overclock. I will try it out sometime this week and report the results.

Yep ,i've always used AMD CPUs & they always Oc'ed very good.Let us know your findings. :smile:

[werty316]

So a 300MHz overclock with the stock cooler might be actually possible? I would need to increase the core clock to 225 MHz to get 2.36GHz with a 10.5 x multiplier(and memory now running at 786MHz). My motherboard is a lowly Asus M2N-MX, which is not an enthusiast class board.

I am apprehensive as I just bought the system a few days ago, and don't wanna blow it up/void warranty so soon. Call it first time overclocker jitters:lol:
In that case give this nice overclock guide a read: http://icrontic.com/articles/overclocking_on_754939_platform
Keep in mind this is a S939/S754 overclocking guide but most of it relevant to your system except for the type of memory used.

If you are still jittery about overclocking I suggest you don't try it as it'll give you more problems than gains.

[nebucanazza]

I think I might just try it out. Can't resist tinkering with the components. Thanks for that link, that's a killer guide!

[werty316]

The only thing you might have to do is just the HT multiplier down from "5x" to "4x" which isn't a big deal.

[the_dope_chaud]

werty is right, lowering to 4x helps a lot (it did in my x2 build). If you have questions, just ask,we have good people around here. Just remeber to take that OC slowly, rushing things just leads to frustration.

[nebucanazza]

Ya, I already have it at 4x. I read that about 3x HT is sufficient, and I plan to use that once I increase my processor clock from 200MHz.

Cooling might be an issue though. Running Orthos for 10 minutes pushes up my CPU temperature to 51C, with idle temperature being 37C. But upto 60-65 should be OK I guess. I will post my results once I try it out:smile:

[PP Mguire]

PLease read about the stuff ive been saying. 100mhz down on your cpu isnt going to do much. In all truth youll get better performance from having 100mhz more on your ram. Also, ive OCed this X2 4800+ to 2.5ghz on the stock cooler. Got a little warm but i had my sidepanel on too. AS long as you set a shut down temp in the bios (60c is where i keep mine) you wont have to worry about blowing anything up. Also, only FX processors can have the multiplier changed. Thats why they are so exspensive. If you change the multi up from stock in the bios it wont do anything ;) So, just set your FSB to default to run your ram and cpu 1:1. (Which should be stock CPU and DDR800.)

[sushrukh]

Yes PP i've suggested the same thing to him. 100 mhz more memory is better than 100 mhz more CPU speed.


The processor at 2.1GHz and memory running at 700Mhz or the processor running at 2.0GHz with the memory now running at full capacity 800MHz? I am currently using the latter setting, achieved by reducing the multiplier to 10x.


He said that if he has to run his CPU at full speed ( that's 2.1 Ghz ) ,then his ram will run in 700Mhz but if he decrease his CPU speed to 2.0,then his ram will be able to run at full speed (that's DDR2 800).So, i'm prefering the later option.

[PP Mguire]

Yea i can back my statement up with what ive been saying all along. You dont need CPU for that much, and deffo can say 100mhz isnt gonna help you all that much. BUt pumping info through your ram at 100mhz faster will deff help.

[nebucanazza]

PLease read about the stuff ive been saying. 100mhz down on your cpu isnt going to do much. In all truth youll get better performance from having 100mhz more on your ram. Also, ive OCed this X2 4800+ to 2.5ghz on the stock cooler. Got a little warm but i had my sidepanel on too. AS long as you set a shut down temp in the bios (60c is where i keep mine) you wont have to worry about blowing anything up. Also, only FX processors can have the multiplier changed. Thats why they are so exspensive. If you change the multi up from stock in the bios it wont do anything ;) So, just set your FSB to default to run your ram and cpu 1:1. (Which should be stock CPU and DDR800.)
Could you link me to stuff you have been saying?

I had a similar feeling and hence chose that combination. Again, you can find some reports that the current crop of Athlon X2s can't utilize the full potential of fast DDR2 RAMS and actually DDR667 might be enough. I dunno what is the truth.

BTW the X2 4800+ runs stock at 2.5GHz, and the older 4800+ at 2.4 GHz...so I don't really get how is your config an overclocked one ?

[PP Mguire]

Im running a socket 939 system dude. Stock is 2.2ghz. ANywho, your right though. The AM2 setups dont utilize the RAM speed right. I remember reading this now whih is why im completely decided to skip DDR2. Id say, your still better off at the 800 speed cause AMDs like the even #s. The odd #s are more INtel. If you have to, downclock your CPU -100mhz like you have to (which dosent make sense) and make your RAM run 800mhz. As to links, just go all around the forums, i rant my CPU crap everywhere dude.

[nebucanazza]

I decided to go ahead with the overclock after all. Currently I have pushed it to 2.2GHz, with idle temperature of 35C and stable load temperature of 52C after running Orthos StressCPU for 25 minutes. The readings were exactly the same at stock and underclocked speeds too.I plan to stress the system some more, run games etc and then move on to higher clocks.

Hopefully I should be able to reach 2.4GHz on the stock cooler without excessive heating. I have my Asus PC Probe set to a threshold of 62C, while max temperature specs for Athlon X2 Brisbane are reported to be 72C.

[sushrukh]

I decided to go ahead with the overclock after all. Currently I have pushed it to 2.2GHz, with idle temperature of 35C and stable load temperature of 52C after running Orthos StressCPU for 25 minutes. The readings were exactly the same at stock and underclocked speeds too.I plan to stress the system some more, run games etc and then move on to higher clocks.

Hopefully I should be able to reach 2.4GHz on the stock cooler without excessive heating. I have my Asus PC Probe set to a threshold of 62C, while max temperature specs for Athlon X2 Brisbane are reported to be 72C.

Best of luck Nebu with your OC & if you see that temps are going over 60C in full load,then down your OC a bit.Don't run your CPU over 60C in load coz you r using stock cooler.

[nebucanazza]

Currently I'm at at 2.3GHz with stable load temperature of 54C after running 1 hour of Orthos Gromacs Core. On running games it goes to around 50C...so still some juice left:wink: I guess I'll push it upto 2.36 GHz (225MHz clock with 10.5x) and stop there. The memory is already running at 768MHz now.

[sushrukh]

Currently I'm at at 2.3GHz with stable load temperature of 54C after running 1 hour of Orthos Gromacs Core. On running games it goes to around 50C...so still some juice left:wink: I guess I'll push it upto 2.36 GHz (225MHz clock with 10.5x) and stop there. The memory is already running at 768MHz now.

Looks good & if you can,you can put a Cooler Master CPU cooler on it later.If you need the contact information of Cooler master in India you can tell me.I've just purchased a Cooler Master 600W Extreme Power Duo from Kolkata.I think,it's the only brand which you can get quite easily in India.

[nebucanazza]

If I buy a premium CPU cooler, I am taking it all the way to 3GHz :p

[PP Mguire]

Hecks yes OCing time!! If you could OC enough to make your RAM reach 800mhz while having a stbale OC on your processor that would be awesome. DOnt underestimate the stock cooler. They rock actualy.

[nebucanazza]

I think I will get there fairly easily. It just needs another 9 MHz on the system clock

[sushrukh]

Yep, if you can run your CPU @ 3Ghz with memories operating @ 800 Mhz,that'll be wonderfull & you'll get a hell lot of performance boost.

[PP Mguire]

Yea, i thikn the problem with AM2 processors is the speed. THey whernt fast enough.

[nebucanazza]

****e!!! My low-end board did me in after all, it crashed at 225MHz. Luckily it has Asus CPU parameter recovery feature, so I didn't have to mess with CMOS.

[sushrukh]

****e!!! My low-end board did me in after all, it crashed at 225MHz. Luckily it has Asus CPU parameter recovery feature, so I didn't have to mess with CMOS.

Oops, only 225 mhz.Is it due to the stock cooler ?

[Xero (1)ne]

Of course, in an ideal scenario I would have liked to overclock the hell out of it to run at 2.4GHz with the memory running at 800MHz:lol:

BURN IT UP BABY :devildance:

[nebucanazza]

Oops, only 225 mhz.Is it due to the stock cooler ?

No I'm sure the motherboard hit its ceiling. I read somewhere that it is supposed to go till 230 MHz only, although my BIOS gives options all the way to 300MHz. I have it running stably at 224 MHz now(Max temp 54C Idle 37C Processor speed 2.35GHz). The RAM is running at 784MHz which is good enough.

[sushrukh]

No I'm sure the motherboard hit its ceiling. I read somewhere that it is supposed to go till 230 MHz only, although my BIOS gives options all the way to 300MHz. I have it running stably at 224 MHz now(Max temp 54C Idle 37C Processor speed 2.35GHz). The RAM is running at 784MHz which is good enough.

Well though it's supposed to go till 230Mhz but not everytime it's possible to get that as claimed because they may have used better cooling or better memories or other things.So, it's not always possible to get as high as that what has been claimed but it's good that you have reached quite near to that " supposed to be " claim.So,it's all good.

[nebucanazza]

Its pretty unstable at the moment. I had reached 226MHz for sometime. The system ran cool and stable and I played some games without any glitches. Today morning I started my PC and it refused to boot till I lowered the clock down to 224MHz :(

[sushrukh]

Its pretty unstable at the moment. I had reached 226MHz for sometime. The system ran cool and stable and I played some games without any glitches. Today morning I started my PC and it refused to boot till I lowered the clock down to 224MHz :(

Yep,then don't risk it running at 226 Mhz untill you have a good 3rd party cooler.;-)

[nebucanazza]

Yep,then don't risk it running at 226 Mhz untill you have a good 3rd party cooler.;-)

Unfortunately the cooler won't help as it is not a temperature problem at all. The CPU is always around 36-37 C idle and 52-54C at max load(Orthos) for all the clocks I tried. This motherboard is just not able to handle anything above 224 MHz.

Anybody got tips on what could be wrong? Cool 'n Quiet is off. Here is a summary of my settings:

[Ranzear]

I'd take the option of the lower ram frequency and then drive the latencies to the floor. I dropped mine from 900 to 760 and managed to pull 4 4 4 10 timings, and picked up 500 marks in 3dmark06 to put me over 12,000.

[PP Mguire]

Wow, im deff not used to DDR2 cause i saw those timings and wsa about to be like wHOA those suck, but for DDR2 thats pretty good. Idk, i honestly dont thikn its his RAM or CPU. I thikn hes right and it might be his mobo. Not like yall are running DFIs here.

[nebucanazza]

It sure looks like my mobo. The CPU voltage,frequency and temp are all OK. I am thoroughly disappointed though... 24 MHz is paltry.Even on 225 MHz, I am sometimes unable to boot on cold restarts, though it does boot normally on retrying.

Thanks for reminding me of the RAM latencies. 5-5-5-18 is about average, premium RAMs have 4-4-4-12 type timings. DDR-400/ Socket 939 does pretty well for itself when compared to DDR2-800 on Athlon X2 platforms. It sure beats out DDR2 533 and 667.The Athlon architecture has been reported to favor tighter RAM timings.
But I doubt how well my RAM would respond, its budget RAM after all. What do you use to change RAM timings BTW? I only saw this option enabled in nTune, and I don't trust that software.

[nebucanazza]

I tried to push my RAM timings to 4-4-5-16(just an arbitrary choice) using nTune. Within 30 seconds of using Orthos, I got a crash and the blue screen of death :(

In an Athlon X2 system, how can I increase/decrease RAM frequency when its automatically derived by a fixed integer divisor of the processor speed? The only adjustable parameter seems to be the FSB.

[tyle6]

i think where you had it stable is where you should go back too. like you said if this is just some random motherboard not for ocing. you can not expect too much from it. dont stress the board or yourself or the board run it where its stable man!!!

[nebucanazza]

I guess I have to accept the fact that my config go beyond this small overclock :(

I'll stop picking your brains now;-)

[tyle6]

oh pick our brains all you want !!! dont let what we say make you push your board harder when your happy where it is. no one here will be responsible if you fry anything. so just be careful!! ask away knowledge is great. and theres a ton here.

[nebucanazza]

Don't worry about that..I am careful with my experimentation. I am doing the overclock in small steps and monitoring temperature and stability at each step. Also, I fully realize that any damage caused is solely my responsibility. I am not of the type to come and blame someone else for my mistakes;-)

I finally found RAM settings in the BIOS.Had somehow missed it earlier. I'll try to push the timings lower at 667 speeds and report back. I still don't like the Athlon X2 RAM frequency calculation method, basically if you can't up the FSB you can't up anything. There is no question of running a 1:1 ratio either.

[PP Mguire]

I think your just having a hard time casue i know people who run their X2s 1:1.

[nebucanazza]

With my current setup of an overclocked base frequency of 200MHz and DDR2 800, a 3x HTT multiplier is too low for the memory while a 4x multiplier too high. So 1:1 RAM and HTT is not really possible.

I have settled for a 222MHz clock(CPU at 2.33GHz). Everything else I tried, including changing RAM timings/frequency, just didn't work.

[OutlawTorn]

This is a great thread. Sounds like I have a similar rig as neb but my motherboard is a bit more overclocking friendly(I think). I'm trying to figure out if I'll be ok overclocking my processor so I can get my DDR 800 to run at 800MHz instead of 700MHz. Here are my main system specs:

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4000+ Brisbane 2.1GHz Socket AM2 Processor
DFI INFINITY NF570 SLI-M2/G AM2 NVIDIA nForce 570 SLI MCP ATX AMD Motherboard
Patriot Extreme Performance 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)which supposedly has 4-4-4-12 timing

I'm using the stock cooler on the processor so would being able to get the processor up to 2.4GHz be possible? I've never overclocked before so I don't even know where to start!:redface::help:

[nebucanazza]

I just discovered my PSU has only 17A on the 12V rail. Maybe this is why it fails to boot on OCing beyond a small amount.

Outlaw, I think you should be able to hit 2.4 easily with that MB and a decent PSU. My M/B and PSU are just too low end.

[OutlawTorn]

I just discovered my PSU has only 17A on the 12V rail. Maybe this is why it fails to boot on OCing beyond a small amount.

Outlaw, I think you should be able to hit 2.4 easily with that MB and a decent PSU. My M/B and PSU are just too low end.

Yeah I picked up a Antec SLI ready 550W power supply. I might go pick up an aftermarket cooler to be safe...I'll probably give it a shot after work.
What kind of PSU are you using Neb?

[nebucanazza]

Its a generic PSU which came with the case. Brands like Antec are only available at a huge premium in India.

In fact I am researching PSUs right now:grin:...I'll get a better one and squeeze some more juice out of this Athlon. And maybe take my 8600GT beyond the current 620/750 I have now.

[OutlawTorn]

Its a generic PSU which came with the case. Brands like Antec are only available at a huge premium in India.

In fact I am researching PSUs right now:grin:...I'll get a better one and squeeze some more juice out of this Athlon. And maybe take my 8600GT beyond the current 620/750 I have now.
Looks like we have a pretty similar setup! I'm planning on getting a 2nd XFX 8600GT and running them in SLI mode. :beerchug:
Keep me posted on the Athlon progress.:icon_tiphat:

[Ranzear]

In fact I am researching PSUs right now:grin:...

Newegg.com

Tagan.

[nebucanazza]

Newegg.com

Tagan.

India:frown: