I am going to be making a statement tomorrow!

[Andrew1990]

Well as some of you may know, Illinois has put a mandatory silent moment of reelection law into effect in our schools. Well, this somewhat hints at time for religious prayer which I along with others do not believe in my school. Here is a copy of the law stated by the Illinois government.

SCHOOLS
(105 ILCS 20/) Silent Reflection and Student Prayer Act.

(105 ILCS 20/0.01) (from Ch. 122, par. 770)
Sec. 0.01. Short title. This Act may be cited as the Silent Reflection and Student Prayer Act.
(Source: P.A. 92‑832, eff. 1‑1‑03.)

(105 ILCS 20/1) (from Ch. 122, par. 771)
Sec. 1. In each public school classroom the teacher in charge shall observe a brief period of silence with the participation of all the pupils therein assembled at the opening of every school day. This period shall not be conducted as a religious exercise but shall be an opportunity for silent prayer or for silent reflection on the anticipated activities of the day.
(Source: P.A. 95‑680, eff. 10‑11‑07.)

(105 ILCS 20/5)
Sec. 5. Student prayer. In order that the right of every student to the free exercise of religion is guaranteed within the public schools and that each student has the freedom to not be subject to pressure from the State either to engage in or to refrain from religious observation on public school grounds, students in the public schools may voluntarily engage in individually initiated, non‑disruptive prayer that, consistent with the Free Exercise and Establishment Clauses of the United States and Illinois Constitutions, is not sponsored, promoted, or endorsed in any manner by the school or any school employee.
(Source: P.A. 92‑832, eff. 1‑1‑03.)

Top


As you can see it is mandatory which means I have no say in my choice. Instead of using the 1 minute of time to learn, I have to go through this time in which they expect us to "reflect".

I plan on making a scene tomorrow in school and hoping I get sent down to the deans office. I will of course print a copy of this law and state directly to him that I find it unconstitutional. If he punishes me for this I will then complain to the school board and if that doesn't work, then onto the state representative.

Any tips on succeeding in my goal.

[Miker]

If I were you I would either...

Put on a turban and sit on the floor with my legs crossed.

Pull out a bible, book of the devil or any other religious book. (Talk to Sadasius)

Look at your refection in the window or mirror.

Father, son and the holy spirit ("Cross") your chest.

[Andrew1990]

Put on a turban and sit on the floor with my legs crossed.


This actually may work. Instead of opposing it, I can take it to the extreme!

[Miker]

This actually may work. Instead of opposing it, I can take it to the extreme!

You can't be disruptive or make noise, but they can't complain.

[Sadasius]

This could actually be a pretty funny opportunity for you to really get your point home by using and extreme they are not used to. Mind you as it say's silent you will have to act it out in silence. I would bring a turban and a kneeling mat. When it becomes time simply go beside your desk and unroll your mat and kneel and then start bowing down with both hands to imitate the Islamic prayer time (just an example of something they are not used to and not to insult anyone of the Islamic faith).

Religion has been a base of oppression for a very long time and it is up to the strong minded people to be able to make a stand. Let people know that you are not doing it to disrespect their beliefs and that you just do not want their beliefs to intrude on you just as they did not want you to intrude on them. Everyone has their own beliefs and it is pretty sad when they make students all follow a single belief structure.

[Methious]

Get one of those painless silk whips and perform silent flagulation. With the whip on your back (and the rest of you get your minds outta the gutter).

[Andrew1990]

I respect all religions even though I personally do not follow one. I just think State and Religion should be totally separated and little loop holes like this one should be dealt with.

[PP Mguire]

In my opinion this is obviously religion being forced on schools. This goes to show how corrupt our GOV is.

There are so many contradictions in those statements its not even funny. Its worse than the Bible mind you!

Back when i was in middle school they tried forcing this crap on me. Sorry, didnt fly. I was the only student who could fart loudly during the moment of silence and not be punished. Its the same as schools trying to force the pledge on you. Im sorry, there shall be no religion or political BS forced on me while im at school. It goes against my rights as an American. Yea, you have every right to make a big stink about this and they cant do **** to you. Pull the religion card on them like i did becasue it states they are not trying to pressure you into anything yet they are pressuring you into a mandated moment of silnce. I dont think so.

[srpeters18]

Seriously guys? Its not like they're holding your hand and waiting for you to finish praying. It also says it can be used as a moment of reflection on the day ahead, thinking about what needs to be done, not just prayer-time. They're not forcing anybody to pray here. They're allowing everybody else the opportunity.

['Amp!']

In my opinion this is obviously religion being forced on schools. This goes to show how corrupt our GOV is.

You do know this country was founded on religious principles?

I don't know why you guys get so freaked out about religion. I would wager a guess it is due to only having one point of view about it. The stereotypical Catholic view.

If you took some time to find the roots of Christianity, or Judaism or the Muslim faith I believe you would feel very different.

I am personally Christian but not only in my mind and what I read but in my daily activities. To help others in need. To be patient and understanding. It helps me to be a better person.

The further and further this country moves away from its roots the worse it becomes.

You say the Gov't is so corrupt? I agree. But it isn't because of too much belief's it is because of too few.
I don't use the word religion because it isn't about going to some building for an hour and listening to someone speak from an old book.

It is about my personal relationship with God and how that influences me on a daily basis.

So you want help on how to lash out at something you perceive as a religious mandate. It is quiet time for you to collect your thoughts and realize that in the day you are about to have you will face challenges and joys, ups and downs and if you are mentally prepared for them you will be able to handle them with ease and get through them.

But f-u-c-k that. Let's go and act like an ass because I don't want to do anything anyone tells me if I even THINK it is about God.

Good luck you won't get any help from me in that department. But I will pray for you tonight.

['Amp!']

As you can see it is mandatory which means I have no say in my choice. Instead of using the 1 minute of time to learn, I have to go through this time in which they expect us to "reflect".

I don't believe for one second that you would rather sit there with your hands folded learning. But maybe I am wrong and you sit there every day and get straight A's. If you are then I commend you but then you would know this is harmless.

What is wrong with allowing those students who believe in a higher power 60 seconds to thank the Lord and ask for guidance?

So you go tell the dean that this is unconstitutional and see how far that gets you. ;-)

You're in high school you don't have any rights. Talk to me after you graduate college.

[Miker]

I don't believe for one second that you would rather sit there with your hands folded learning. But maybe I am wrong and you sit there every day and get straight A's. If you are then I commend you but then you would know this is harmless.

What is wrong with allowing those students who believe in a higher power 60 seconds to thank the Lord and ask for guidance?

So you go tell the dean that this is unconstitutional and see how far that gets you. ;-)

You're in high school you don't have any rights. Talk to me after you graduate college.

I have a 97 average in college, if I had to go to school and sit for 1 minute to pray I would be pissed.

[PP Mguire]

I have a 97 average in college, if I had to go to school and sit for 1 minute to pray I would be pissed.Ding ding ding. I only made a big stink about these things when i made straight As. Which was anything below my SR year.

I would wager a guess it is due to only having one point of view about it. The stereotypical Catholic view.I dont believe in religion. So, obviously not there. I wont go off on a religious debate because to me this isnt exactly a "religious" debate. Its more of a were gonna force this on the students who dont want to becasue the other religious students do want to. ITs sorta like the pledge and thats why i made the pledge an example.

[Sadasius]

I think they should release those who do not want to take part to have a break or something while the rest prayed or decided to reflect. Personally I see many problems in having your time for prayer and reflection dictated to you. That is a very personal choice and should never be dictated to anyone. It is an imposing view and it should never have been mandated to begin with. There has never been anything else but religion that has caused the absolute most destruction and death due to wars on this planet. Religion is a personal choice plain and simple and not a State choice. It may have been founded that way but it is changing for the better as the laws were designed to do that. I cannot wait to see religion just fade away in time as it was the nurturer of so many stupidities and hostilities. Were better off without them.

@Gonz You don't need a religion to be a good person. You already are! But that is your personal choice. I just think you already had it in you to help others and such. Heck look at me. I help all the time and even assemble people to make things such as blankets for the homeless. I do charity work all the time. Would you be able to guess my religion?

[tyle6]

No Comment...

[PP Mguire]

I think they should release those who do not want to take part to have a break or something while the rest prayed or decided to reflect. Personally I see many problems in having your time for prayer and reflection dictated to you. That is a very personal choice and should never be dictated to anyone. It is an imposing view and it should never have been mandated to begin with. There has never been anything else but religion that has caused the absolute most destruction and death due to wars on this planet. Religion is a personal choice plain and simple and not a State choice. It may have been founded that way but it is changing for the better as the laws were designed to do that. I cannot wait to see religion just fade away in time as it was the nurturer of so many stupidities and hostilities. Were better off without them.

@Gonz You don't need a religion to be a good person. You already are! But that is your personal choice. I just think you already had it in you to help others and such. Heck look at me. I help all the time and even assemble people to make things such as blankets for the homeless. I do charity work all the time. Would you be able to guess my religion?I agree.

[tywashere]

The country was founded on FREEDOM of religion. So, Go die kthxplx.

[donpm]

This country was NOT founded on Christian ideas. That is a load of crap shoveled down Americans throats for far to long now. This about sums it up for me,

The Judaeo Christian god is "a vindictive blood thirsty ethnic cleansing, misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, finicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capricious malevolent bully."

Richard Dawkins

[srpeters18]

I think they should release those who do not want to take part to have a break or something while the rest prayed or decided to reflect. Personally I see many problems in having your time for prayer and reflection dictated to you. That is a very personal choice and should never be dictated to anyone. It is an imposing view and it should never have been mandated to begin with. There has never been anything else but religion that has caused the absolute most destruction and death due to wars on this planet. Religion is a personal choice plain and simple and not a State choice. It may have been founded that way but it is changing for the better as the laws were designed to do that. I cannot wait to see religion just fade away in time as it was the nurturer of so many stupidities and hostilities. Were better off without them.


I on the other hand disagree. Many wars have been started based on the pretenses of religion. Those who have started those wars generally have not done it for the glory of God but for themselves. For power, money, or other worldly things. They use religion as an excuse.

And you think our country is getting better? We have more people on welfare, more children born out of wedlock, higher prison populations, more homeless on the streets, more homicide, more suicide, more child abuse, more sexual abuse then ever before, and you say its getting better? I agree with you, that in the past SOME religions have become oppressors, but they did not last in that form because people won't stand for it. The increasing absence of religion or at least a belief in a higher power has led to the degradation of society, not its betterment, as you claim.

But again, nothing personal, just stating opinions here.

[donpm]

[QUOTE=srpeters18;134602]I on the other hand disagree. Many wars have been started based on the pretenses of religion. Those who have started those wars generally have not done it for the glory of God but for themselves. For power, money, or other worldly things. They use religion as an excuse.

And you think our country is getting better? We have more people on welfare, more children born out of wedlock, higher prison populations, more homeless on the streets, more homicide, more suicide, more child abuse, more sexual abuse then ever before, and you say its getting better? I agree with you, that in the past SOME religions have become oppressors, but they did not last in that form because people won't stand for it. The increasing absence of religion or at least a belief in a higher power has led to the degradation of society, not its betterment, as you claim.

But again, nothing personal, just stating opinions here.



Embrace Science and Truth, not imaginary floating men in the sky.

[Sadasius]

And you think our country is getting better? We have more people on welfare, more children born out of wedlock, higher prison populations, more homeless on the streets, more homicide, more suicide, more child abuse, more sexual abuse then ever before, and you say its getting better? I agree with you, that in the past SOME religions have become oppressors, but they did not last in that form because people won't stand for it. The increasing absence of religion or at least a belief in a higher power has led to the degradation of society, not its betterment, as you claim.

But again, nothing personal, just stating opinions here.

It is not the absence of religion that is causing but the absence of proper leadership and the unfortunate presence of stupidity. Education is key and you cannot blame all the immoralities of the world because of lack of religion. The people in Afghanistan who thought religious oppression was the way to get rid of everything you just said were right? Religion is one of the hardest things for people to debate because it's like politics. It can go on forever and it does not smell any better then what you started with...lol

[srpeters18]

Oh please. Do you really dispute any of that? Do you really think the increase in all of those behaviors is due to anything but a lessening of standards, of personal values, and of personal beliefs? What then would you attribute it to? Global warming?:rolleyes:

[Sadasius]

Oh please. Do you really dispute any of that? Do you really think the increase in all of those behaviors is due to anything but a lessening of standards, of personal values, and of personal beliefs? What then would you attribute it to? Global warming?:rolleyes:

No I blame Saddam Hussein and Rudolph the red nosed reindeer. Never trusted the way his nose glows. You know damn well he drinks too much. Bad role model...:lol:

[donpm]

When children are confronted with religion for the first time, they often, as all children will do, question it; Its reasoning, morality, and truthfulness.

An Idea so stupid that even children see through the first time. They have to be brainwashed into believing it. :icon_tiphat:

[srpeters18]

It is not the absence of religion that is causing but the absence of proper leadership and the unfortunate presence of stupidity. Education is key and you cannot blame all the immoralities of the world because of lack of religion. The people in Afghanistan who thought religious oppression was the way to get rid of everything you just said were right? Religion is one of the hardest things for people to debate because it's like politics. It can go on forever and it does not smell any better then what you started with...lol

I agree. But that goes back to my previous statement. People don't oppress to glorify God. They oppress to hold power over another. The Taliban may claim religious motivations, but were they truly following their own religion, they wouldn't be committing the atrocities that they have.

Religion doesn't work when it oppresses. But it can be a great influencer because it encourages people to live the best that they can, helping others and taking care of each other. At least that's how my religion is. And I would guess that most religions encourage education as well. Or at least, mine does. My church actually has set up an education fund to donate to those not able to pay for college. Many leaders of my church have been scientists, doctors, lawyers and other professionals.

[srpeters18]

When children are confronted with religion for the first time, they often, as all children will do, question it; Its reasoning, morality, and truthfulness.

An Idea so stupid that even children see through the first time. They have to be brainwashed into believing it. :icon_tiphat:

I don't know where you have experienced that, but my children have no problem accepting it. Nor do any of the 6 year olds that I taught in Sunday School. Or any of the other 80 or so children in my congregation. That were gathered for Sunday School.

[donpm]

And children don't question the sick morality of God? Please don't even try it. You know as well as I do that you have spent many hours trying to pound that crap into a kid's mind that "just needs to be saved".

[srpeters18]

Actually, you are wrong. My children come to me with questions looking for answers. Not because they disbelieve, but because they want to know more. And no, they don't need to be saved. We believe that children don't reach the age of accountability until age 8, then they become responsible for their own actions and choosing between right and wrong.

I don't profess to know what happened in your life to make you so bitter but I don't understand why you would want to attack me for it. So many people complain of being oppressed by the religious right, but interestingly it seems like just as much harassment and trying to convert someone to their own point of view comes from the other side as well. At least I don't run around screaming obscenities at people leaving churches just for something to do.

[AJ.]

I agree. But that goes back to my previous statement. People don't oppress to glorify God. They oppress to hold power over another. The Taliban may claim religious motivations, but were they truly following their own religion, they wouldn't be committing the atrocities that they have.

I agree 100%.


Religion doesn't work when it oppresses. But it can be a great influencer because it encourages people to live the best that they can, helping others and taking care of each other. At least that's how my religion is. And I would guess that most religions encourage education as well. Or at least, mine does..

Islam is exactly what you describe. It's not all that bullsh!t you see in media. We're not terrorists, we don't all wear turbins, and we absolutely don't promote or condone violence. Islam is a lifestyle. It's a religion of peace and tranquility. They can shove that "muslim terrorist" crap where the sun don't shine! You're not a muslim if you do what the media portrays muslims to be.

Ehm... anyway, something more on topic, I don't see what's wrong with reflecting for a minute or two during school. They don't tell you what to reflect about. It's a moment of silence. Technically, you could do anything but make noise. Before you know it, that minute or so would be over. I would have loved to have a moment of silence during school. It gives me a chance to relax during the day. I like silence, it's very relaxing. :)

[PP Mguire]

I smelled this coming a mile away. Im sorry, but you DONT need religion to keep things together. You need a strong leader, and less corruption. Religion has to be the biggest hipocracy ive ever heard of.

Heres my last statement and im out of this
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v701/pp_mguire/god.jpg

[srpeters18]

I smelled this coming a mile away. Im sorry, but you DONT need religion to keep things together. You need a strong leader, and less corruption. Religion has to be the biggest hipocracy ive ever heard of.



Yep, the current social climate is a perfect example too.:frown:

[Sadasius]

Well as you can see religion is a subject like I said earlier that is hard to debate. Why? Because it's a personal issue that is taken by some very deeply. Gee almost sounds like sex doesn't it? Perhaps though it is just as personal however. There are just as many religions on this planet as there are people. Because we are all different we will all look at them different and take in our own interpretation. So to talk about it you get a bunch of people who take it as a personal attack, a threat to their own beleifs, a threat to their own freedoms. It is not an easy subject for many people to be able to talk about rationally. Why? Because it is a very irrational subject due to its ties being so closely linked with emotion, self awareness and being.

[tyle6]

Lets replace the word religion with "faith" in all this. I think "FAITH' makes this place a better world and we all need a lil more. Whether its faith in god, faith in human kind, faith that the sun will rise tomoro. Heck even faith in that your gonna have another good dump tomro morning when you wake.
Something to believe in goes a long way.

[Sadasius]

Lets replace the word religion with "faith" in all this. I think "FAITH' makes this place a better world and we all need a lil more. Whether its faith in god, faith in human kind, faith that the sun will rise tomoro. Heck even faith in that your gonna have another good dump tomro morning when you wake.
Something to believe in goes a long way.

HAHAHA, good job man. I could not agree more. :icon_tiphat:

[tyle6]

I just hope you do realize that as much as this seems to you that someone is imposing there beliefs on you everyday, making a scene during this time would be nothing more then depriving the other students of there right to take this time and do as the choose with it. I think you may be wiser to make a stand by removing yourself from the class a few seconds before the "moment of silence" and return afterwards. This way you are not partaking, yet not depriving anyone else of there rights.

[AJ.]

I just hope you do realize that as much as this seems to you that someone is imposing there beliefs on you everyday, making a scene during this time would be nothing more then depriving the other students of there right to take this time and do as the choose with it. I think you may be wiser to make a stand by removing yourself from the class a few seconds before the "moment of silence" and return afterwards. This way you are not partaking, yet not depriving anyone else of there rights.

That's probably the most reasonable thing to do. You don't want to participate, fine. Just let others who do want to partake do their thing, too. Agreed. ;)

[PP Mguire]

Oh just to clarify on the picture i posted, im not of any "god" faith (Christian, Cathlolic, Baptist, ect), im not Satanist, Atheist or anything else. I have different beliefs and its why i believe "religion" as a whole is just BS. Has been since the olden days. (Im not bashing any of the good faith people like, Scott, Santa, my dad [Hes a Revernd himself] or anybody else but the hipocritical bible thumpers that give religion a bad name)

[Sadasius]

I just hope you do realize that as much as this seems to you that someone is imposing there beliefs on you everyday, making a scene during this time would be nothing more then depriving the other students of there right to take this time and do as the choose with it. I think you may be wiser to make a stand by removing yourself from the class a few seconds before the "moment of silence" and return afterwards. This way you are not partaking, yet not depriving anyone else of there rights.

Like I said in a previous post that they should be allowed to have break or something while the others do their thing. Because nobody should be burdened under the weight of another's faith in something they do not believe in. Just because the wording is different still does not make it right as faith is a very personal thing. I agreed to your previous post because I do believe people should have faith to a great degree. Faith in themselves! If people had more of that our world will be that much better of a place.

[tyle6]

Hey, Don't get me wrong. I think everyone should stand up for what they believe in and protect there freedoms.
I just feel he may be more successful in protecting his freedoms if not encroaching on the rights of others during.

[Xero (1)ne]

I also live in Illinois and this law has had literally no impact on me in any way shape or form.

Nobody uses the time to reflect as far as I know but I'm not complaining because in the morning I'm usually too tired to think. I don't say the pledge of aligance in the morning either just because I'm out of it.

It's a silly law, but the time it takes for people to quiet down for it, it's already half over with.

I'm so used to it now I don't even realize it's there half the time.

[borschtBomber[SS]]

While I don't live in Illinois, I'm sorry I don't see what the big deal in? If you have a problem with a minute of silence set aside, then to me that just looks like an immature person looking for some reason to make an arse of themselves. No offense, but thats just what it looks like to me. I am so sick of everyone feeling they are offended for one reason or another. Its 60 seconds of time a day, get over it and move on. JMO.

[SonicWRX]

Okay I purposely didn't say anything before because I wanted to see if anyone else would bring up a very simple point. At times I seem to be the only one that thinks of this when a religion in school thing comes up. There are 24 hours in a day you are in school for 8ish hours. So, that leaves you with 16 hours to reflect/pray all you want.

You have twice the time that the school has you for learning as personal time. If you want to pray or reflect before you start school. Do it before you get to class/home room. I am sure there is time to find a quiet area and get it done on your own time. If there is not a quiet place already many schools have set aside an empty class room or more each morning for just this kind of thing. However, you still have to be in home room on time.

It is my personal belief that lawmakers should stay out of this kind of thing. I do not have anything against religion.

['Amp!']

Okay I purposely didn't say anything before because I wanted to see if anyone else would bring up a very simple point. At times I seem to be the only one that thinks of this when a religion in school thing comes up. There are 24 hours in a day you are in school for 8ish hours. So, that leaves you with 16 hours to reflect/pray all you want.

You have twice the time that the school has you for learning as personal time. If you want to pray or reflect before you start school. Do it before you get to class/home room. I am sure there is time to find a quiet area and get it done on your own time. If there is not a quiet place already many schools have set aside an empty class room or more each morning for just this kind of thing. However, you still have to be in home room on time.

It is my personal belief that lawmakers should stay out of this kind of thing. I do not have anything against religion.


You make a good point Sonic but there is one thing to remember. If public schools do not allow for people who are religious to engage in their religious activities then they are be prejudice towards them.

This goes for any religion be it Chrisitanity, Judaism or Muslim.

Now I am no expert on the last two, or the first one for that matter, but if there is the need to pray during the day they should be allowed it, no?

Remember the Constitution states the Government will not show favor towards any one religion. Or disfavor.

[Sadasius]

Okay I purposely didn't say anything before because I wanted to see if anyone else would bring up a very simple point. At times I seem to be the only one that thinks of this when a religion in school thing comes up. There are 24 hours in a day you are in school for 8ish hours. So, that leaves you with 16 hours to reflect/pray all you want.

You have twice the time that the school has you for learning as personal time. If you want to pray or reflect before you start school. Do it before you get to class/home room. I am sure there is time to find a quiet area and get it done on your own time. If there is not a quiet place already many schools have set aside an empty class room or more each morning for just this kind of thing. However, you still have to be in home room on time.

It is my personal belief that lawmakers should stay out of this kind of thing. I do not have anything against religion.

Exactly! Why impose it during a time when you are there to learn. I mean would they do this at work as well? Heck why not it's the next step isn't it? State and religion should be two separate entities all together. That's freedom to have the choice with the time you have. Were not going back in time, we are moving ahead. As someone was saying in here that it is a right to pray...yup sure is...on your own damn time. Heck you have a right to bare arms. Should that be imposed for some school time as well to have a gun competition or barrel cleaning race?

[SonicWRX]

You make a good point Sonic but there is one thing to remember. If public schools do not allow for people who are religious to engage in their religious activities then they are be prejudice towards them.

This goes for any religion be it Chrisitanity, Judaism or Muslim.

Now I am no expert on the last two, or the first one for that matter, but if there is the need to pray during the day they should be allowed it, no?

Remember the Constitution states the Government will not show favor towards any one religion. Or disfavor.

Yes they should be allowed to pray, but removed from the group while they do so. Their religion should not inhibit the right of the other's to get an education. However, this dose mean that they will miss that part of class. To avoid this there schedules can be tailored so that they have lunch at that time or a study hall. I just don't see a reasonable reason to stop a whole class so one or two people can pray. Since their choice of religion is their personal choice and not the choice of others. Sure the others could use that time to "reflect", but it still disrupts the whole class.

If only one or two people of the class are NOT going to pray then that's another story, and the class should be put on hold while the majority of the class prays, but then chances are you are in a private school and religion is designed into the curriculum. Private school being the Key to this.

In this case it is one minute (or so) at the start of the day and not really that much of an impact. I know why it was written this way. It shows that they are allowing for religious things but not disrupting the whole day. The problem i have with this kind of thing is that this is how things get started, small. Public school and religion should be kept separate. While it should not prohibit you from practicing religion, any type of religious activity should be kept separate and not imposed on the whole of a student body.

I have no problem with school grounds and facilities being used for religious purposes in a supervised manner before or after school hours. (section 5 takes care of that) However, saying that we are going to stop the day so some students can pray is disruptive to the whole and taking the focuses off of education.

:offtopic:
I guess that it is important to note that I have a lot of family and friends that are teachers and have a bit of an inside look at things. A bunch of small things like this new law make a big thing. The truth is that these small things are getting out of hand. Small things like this are making it harder and harder to actually teach our children. There are so many disruptions in the day that kids are not staying focused on learning and more an more kids need special attention. Mind you i am not really talking about high school but more Elementary school. If you have ready any studys on learning the first few years are the most important. At those ages our minds are like dry sponges soaking up every thing we hear and see. The school day needs to stay focused on education. Time is too limited as is.

Back to topic:

My point is this: School is for learning and practicing knowledge and Church is for learning and practicing religion. Please use each for its intended purpose. There is enough time in the day to keep each separate. School is only 8(ish) hours of the day and not even year round in most places. There is no need to dictate that school time in a system wide manner be set aside for religious purposes no matter how small of a time it is.

[PP Mguire]

Religion isnt supposed to be a part of school, nor is there supposed to be the practice or teach of religion in school. Therefor, they shouldnt have any "time" for any "such" activities whether you want to call it prey time or a reflect time. We all know what it is so dont beat around the bush with it. And if im paying for private school i deff dont want any of my kids time takin away because of such things as this.

[srpeters18]

Religion isnt supposed to be a part of school, nor is there supposed to be the practice or teach of religion in school. Therefor, they shouldnt have any "time" for any "such" activities whether you want to call it prey time or a reflect time. We all know what it is so dont beat around the bush with it. And if im paying for private school i deff dont want any of my kids time takin away because of such things as this.

One of the largest reasons to put your kids in private school is because there is no problem with having stuff like this. Most private schools have some kind of religion in their curriculum.

[Scott]

AHH do I really want to get into this?

I will think about it more before I do.

[AJ.]

Therefor, they shouldnt have any "time" for any "such" activities whether you want to call it prey time or a reflect time.

I sure hope it's not prey time. I would have second thoughts about going to school without some sort of weapon. :lol:

Just messin with ya. ;-)

[Sadasius]

AHH do I really want to get into this?

I will think about it more before I do.

:lol: Yeah it is a testy subject for a lot of people.

[borschtBomber[SS]]

Religion isnt supposed to be a part of school, nor is there supposed to be the practice or teach of religion in school. Therefor, they shouldnt have any "time" for any "such" activities whether you want to call it prey time or a reflect time. We all know what it is so dont beat around the bush with it. And if im paying for private school i deff dont want any of my kids time takin away because of such things as this.

yeah like srpeters said, I think you'll find most private schools do incorporate religion and that is a big reason of why parents send their kids there.

haha, sorry this whole thread just reminds me of what irritates me with the world anymore...everyone wants to be offended by something.

[raidersforever01]

I am interested in what Scott has to say now. I have found this thread very interesting sounds a little like when we were studying religion in psychology.

This is an impossible subject for anyone to fully agree with anyone else. Especially because we are all from different backgrounds. We all have different morals, beliefs, and ideals. Although some people may be very alike in mindset but never the same. Me and my mom bump heads when it comes to religion and we are both devout catholics sitting next to each other in the same church. Everyone is just sticking to their guns and not much more can be added. It feels like things are going to get a bit more heated soon.

[Sadasius]

Two of the most arguable subjects of all time, religion and politics. I too would be interested in what Scott would have to say on this topic.

@Raiders...Man that must have been some debate discussing religion in psychology.:lol:

[raidersforever01]

Ya it was great in psychology. I feel like taking more classes like that, sociology was interesting to. I like to sit back and watch. I am seeing a lot of the same things here too. Most of the people in this thread are fighting for their own way of life and although they say it they dont really care for anyone else, beacause if you think about the only reason why they jumped in was becuase they didn't agree. This is what they believe is best. Everyone seems to have valid points no one is really wrong but no one is completely right. All that can be done is you believe in whatyou beleive and i will believe in what i believe.

[Scott]

Well I am very happy and glad to be a Catholic. The very strange thing I find is watching all this stuff about Obama preacher, minister or whatever you call him and how he acts. You see all these different relgions where everybody is jumping up and down, hottin and hollering. To me they just might as well had a party.

The Catholic church is much more formal and the way at least I think you should go to church and pay your resepects to god. But to each their own on that.

The one thing I can not stand though is this people saying we should take In God We Trust of the money, take god out of the pledge of allegiance and so on.

This country was founded on our forefathers belief in god and the wanting to be a free country. If you do not want to see it on your money and other such things then go live in Mexico or somewhere else.

As far as school goes, I do not think it needs to be taught in school. You can send your kids to a private school or church ran school if you want it taught to them. BUT I do think all students should say the pledge of allegiance every school morning at the beginning of school.

Now you are hearing all this from someone that thinks today's socitey is going down the tubes. Kids have not respect for anyone, discipline can't even be given when it needs to be.

My daughters are two prime examples, my wife never let me disipline them. They are my step daughters and they are spoiled, back talk and never do a thing you say. They now even do it to their mom. They will learn life the hard way when they move out in 4-6 years.

My son I have desiplined. He may get spanked once every 2 months if then. He does what he is told, he answers me with yes sir. He does chores and saves his money for things he wants. The more work he does the more he gets. He will do will in life, the other two will probably be begging to come back home once they figure out they should of listened to me and the leasons I tired to teach them.

Ok enough of a rant for now. I just say I can't wait till they have kids and they have to deal what I have had to deal with.

[willgetin]

The topic being the minute of silence and what Andrew1990 should do to protest it...


Quite frankly, I find that extremely funny. What made you decide that this item is the one you want to protest?

There are many things that you probably don't like about school if this one little item bothers you. What else do you not like about school? You want to protest over a minute that you have to be silent. Do you enjoy getting up and going to school? Yet you do not say you want to protest over being forced to go to school.

Do you enjoy being forced to take certain classes that you do not like? I don't see you wanting to protest that. Do you want to protest over having to dress out for PE? Do you want to protest about the fact you are forced to leave the school at a certain time? Do you want to protest over what your school serves for lunch? The fact you don't have vending machines?

You can always find things that you do not agree with. Part of life is learning what is worth the effort of fighting and what is not. What makes this item more important to you than homelessness, cruelty to animals, or some other cause? The fact that there is a moment of silence will probably never change. There is a majority percentage of the population that does believe in a creator of some type or another. That percentage gets divvied up between all of the different faiths. Most of these would want their own faith based minute. Then you have the percentage of people such as yourself that doesn't want time devoted to these different faiths.

You have basically two sides. Where should the line be drawn? Completely to the side of these faith based people that want religious minutes? Or completely to your side where there should not be any? Well, another part of life is learning the art of compromise. Neither side in this case should win, so the realistic approach should be somewhere in the middle. That is where the minute of silence came from. Not from the religious, not from the atheist, but from the realist in an effort to bring a compromise to the situation.

So basically, to sum it up. Suck it up. You will always have to submit to someone, something, somewhere in your life. Let the small things roll off your back. You will be happier and when something really important comes along, you will more energy to devote to that!

[Sadasius]

Well I am very happy and glad to be a Catholic. The very strange thing I find is watching all this stuff about Obama preacher, minister or whatever you call him and how he acts. You see all these different relgions where everybody is jumping up and down, hottin and hollering. To me they just might as well had a party.

The Catholic church is much more formal and the way at least I think you should go to church and pay your resepects to god. But to each their own on that.

The one thing I can not stand though is this people saying we should take In God We Trust of the money, take god out of the pledge of allegiance and so on.

This country was founded on our forefathers belief in god and the wanting to be a free country. If you do not want to see it on your money and other such things then go live in Mexico or somewhere else.

As far as school goes, I do not think it needs to be taught in school. You can send your kids to a private school or church ran school if you want it taught to them. BUT I do think all students should say the pledge of allegiance every school morning at the beginning of school.

Now you are hearing all this from someone that thinks today's socitey is going down the tubes. Kids have not respect for anyone, discipline can't even be given when it needs to be.

My daughters are two prime examples, my wife never let me disipline them. They are my step daughters and they are spoiled, back talk and never do a thing you say. They now even do it to their mom. They will learn life the hard way when they move out in 4-6 years.

My son I have desiplined. He may get spanked once every 2 months if then. He does what he is told, he answers me with yes sir. He does chores and saves his money for things he wants. The more work he does the more he gets. He will do will in life, the other two will probably be begging to come back home once they figure out they should of listened to me and the leasons I tired to teach them.

Ok enough of a rant for now. I just say I can't wait till they have kids and they have to deal what I have had to deal with.


Discipline is kind of a different subject. I have many kids and I do not teach them religion until they are old enough to understand and from there they can make their own choices. My kids are really well behaved because they know if they act out of line they will have to deal with me. I have a very strong command for respect when it concerns raising them and they are very responsible. I give them many choices so that they get educated on making choices for themselves when they are on their own. I don't teach them religion for a simple and very good reason. They do not and will not understand. I cannot justify myself pushing my beliefs on my kids. They are my beliefs and my decision in having them. They are different despite the similar traits we share because of the gene pool. In the eyes of a child the parents are God in so many ways and children will take on the same beliefs as the parent. This to me I find is wrong. But then again like I said that's just me. I was able to have choice when I was younger and religion was not even discussed with me till I was at least 10 years old. Then my father taught me about several religions of what he knew and said if I wanted to know more, then by all means let him know and he will help get the books and read some of the lessons to me. I cannot thank my father enough for doing that. As a father he did his job above and beyond and should have a damn medal for it. My mother on the other hand was the extreme opposite. She was a devout Catholic and she showed by example how not to live. When we were poor and our family struggled she gave our money away to the church. The church knew that our family had a hard time and the damn priest would show up at the door to give my mother her envelopes box for her donations. I had been with her to PTA meetings and yes even met Jimmy and Tammy Baker. I saw my mom fall and caught by other after being tapped on the forehead after being saved by the power of God. I have seen many things. Since my father gave me and my brothers choice we were not brainwashed and we have seen by example how religions operate. I am the only one of three brothers who followed my dads religion. My two brothers are Catholic but take it with a grain of salt as they too have seen my mother do her thing. I think they just do it out of family respect for my mom. All three of us have respect and a great amount of discipline. It had nothing to do with religion. Just good parenting especially on my dads part. Like I said he deserves a damn medal and I tell him that all the time because he deserves that.

[AJ.]

Slightly off topic and random, but all this typing makes me wonder how many thousands, if not millions of words were posted in forum over the years. lol, just wanted to get that off my mind.

Back on topic. :smile:

[borschtBomber[SS]]

@Sadasius, I'm a bit confused by your mother's religion, because as far as I know Jim and Tammy Faye or any other of the televangelists are not Catholic at all. Not wanting to get into a religious debate, but there are enough false allegations out there about all religions. I was raised a Mormon by my parents, and while I no longer go to church, it amazes me all of the rumors and lies that are spread about the Mormon religion let alone all religions in general.

[Sadasius]

Your absolutely right. They were fakes and Evangelists that preyed on the faith of many people and is the reason for their downfall. My mother fell for it all and she continues to fall for such things even today. Heck not too long ago she asked me to do my cards. I was shocked when she whipped out a Tarot deck with angels on it. She said those are okay because they have angels. I could not have laughed louder then I did that day. This was the same woman who threw out mine (occult brand) that I had hidden in my sock drawer saying it was evil when I was 12 years old. The whole thing is absurd to me and like I said she was a shining beacon of what not to be in my life and what path not to follow.

[donpm]

Embrace Truth and Science...not imaginary floating men in the sky.

[Sadasius]

Embrace Truth and Science...not imaginary floating men in the sky.

I embrace being open minded as Truth is relative to perspective and science is studied by imperfect beings. The only constant in the universe is change so one must have a mind that adapts to that. Faith in myself to be able to adapt to those changes is key in my life and how I make my life better. To me there is no heaven, hell, hades, Valhalla etc. Only what I make for myself here and now as this is my time here and now. Either I take charge and make it great or I can be lazy and let others dictate my destiny. The only guilt I feel is in my own failure and the only fear I have is to not live life to it's fullest. Religion is not open minded. To me it is the final refuge of escape from the self created hell of reality. The final resting place of one's identity and destination.

[Miles]

Well I'll have to give each of the participants in this thread the highest marks possible for your demeanor on this topic. This is one of the most civil discussions of religion with drastically differing views I've ever read. Most end up being closed and in some cases a lot of very hard feelings and prejudices are developed. I feared this when I read the first page of this thread, I'm very happy to see we can discuss a topic of this magnitude without anger or belitteling each other.

Well done guys!

[Sadasius]

Thanks man...:icon_tiphat: It is a crazy topic for sure especially to have it pop up on a tech site too. Did not expect that. I am too pleased with the level of maturity and respect for each others opinion without it getting into a war. It is why I like it here!

[AJ.]

Well I'll have to give each of the participants in this thread the highest marks possible for your demeanor on this topic. This is one of the most civil discussions of religion with drastically differing views I've ever read. Most end up being closed and in some cases a lot of very hard feelings and prejudices are developed. I feared this when I read the first page of this thread, I'm very happy to see we can discuss a topic of this magnitude without anger or belitteling each other.

Well done guys!

I believe we should all strive to not take anything personal. It eliminates tons of problems involved with forums. I think we were all tested (or atleast the ones that participated) when Sadasius had posted up the "roasting" game. It's good when we can have mature discussions like these. It creates a good environment for learning and sharing experiences with others. :)

[raidersforever01]

I have been anticipating for a while the next post to be a heated one but so far nothing. A+ for all bjorn members.

Sadasius i have to disagree with you about religion not being open. It is the person themselves that are not that make it that way. That is one of the big reasons why me and my mom never agree with each other. For her thats the way and the only way.

[Sadasius]

I have been anticipating for a while the next post to be a heated one but so far nothing. A+ for all bjorn members.

Sadasius i have to disagree with you about religion not being open. It is the person themselves that are not that make it that way. That is one of the big reasons why me and my mom never agree with each other. For her thats the way and the only way.

Actually I would have to agree with you about religion not being open. I was dead wrong on that and I have no stinking idea why I wrote that actually. I guess the brain went on cruise control...lol. It's the people not the religion that can be closed minded for sure. Thank you for correcting me on that! :thumleft:

[raidersforever01]

Atleast yours is better then when tyles brain goes on cruise control. You end up learning something you might not want to know.:lol:

[tyle6]

LOL what did I say? was it the poop? ROFL, just to clarify I do not worship poop!! lol, mind you i do enjoy a good bowel movement. But, can you say you dont? j/k!

[PP Mguire]

Oook so much writing and im not reading. I stopped at Scotts lol and i agree with him completely. I may seem like one of those "kids" but i treat my parents with the most respect i can being 19. They are hella crazy to put up with me and so i try repaying them in any way possible for the stupid things ive done in the past. And i agree, with the way the general public is its really hard to raise kids anymore.

[willgetin]

So what did you decide to do?