XFX Geforce 8800gs worth it?

[Andrew1990]

Ok this seems like a very good card for about $120. How does this compare to the GT and GTS versions of the card? Also I heard bad things about Teh cooler being extremely loud. Anyone own one want to share some knowledge about these.

Also how do they compare to the 7950GTs? Are they about on par with them in terms of performance?

[Miker]

I would say it is about the same to a 7950GT, it is best just to get a real 8800GT 512m though.

[Andrew1990]

I am a poor boy though, for the extra $80 it cost for the GT 512mb I could be close to getting a decent lowe end core2.

[Miker]

You have a nice clocked PD, just get the 8800GT, then start saving for a great CPU.

[werty316]

If you can't afford an 8800GT, the 9600GT will do. Infact its a much better buy than the 8800GS.

[Dragon_CPU]

you can buy what you like but the GS is better than the 9600 thats why i didnt buy one also the 8800gs is BETTER than the 7950gt I know also I have an XFX 8800gs it benches just lower than the 8800GT because it is a toned down 8800gt it plays Cod4 maxxed np. and on my setup crysis on high 4xAA medium shadows nicely. heres a link.

http://service.futuremark.com/resultComparison.action?compareResultId=5348763&compareResultType=14

thats mine benched against slugbugs on here. 8800gt

Go with the GS if you need to save money I did bacause I chose this over the 9600 and 8800gt could have bought either of those but you get plenty of punch without breakin the bank.

by the way COD4 plays maxxed on stock settings no OC's on any hardware

My Specs:
Intel E2200 2.2ghz @ 3.1ghz 1124fsb
A-DATA DDR2 800 2x 1gb @ 877mhz
XFX 630i/7100 MB
XFX 8800GS 680c/1700s/1600m @ 720c/1800s/1900m
Rosewill 600w SLI PSU
160 sata2 HDD in stripe
20x DVD/Burner
All this is on AIR cooling wander how it would do on water (my next project)

[werty316]

8800GS is better then a 9600GT how?

BTW your link doesn't show your 3dmark06 score.

[Dragon_CPU]

I would say it is about the same to a 7950GT, it is best just to get a real 8800GT 512m though.
his if still the same setup 7950gt gets just over 4000 3dmark06 and my GS does over twice that even on stock

[PP Mguire]

Lol my single 7950GT and 3000+ gets over 6k. On my X2 it got about 7500 without my CPU OCed. So uh, thats not saying much comparing your card to an older gen. And theres no way you outperform a 9600GT, specialy if it is OCed.

Also, on everything stock i play CoD4 maxed as well, single card mind you.

[werty316]

I think he is one of those users that takes into account a video cards performance soley on 3dmark06.

[Dragon_CPU]

8800GS is better then a 9600GT how?

BTW your link doesn't show your 3dmark06 score.
here you go this is a single card on a quad core 9600gt compared to mine 8800gs on a lowly E2200 wander how it'd look if i was running the quad.

http://service.futuremark.com/resultComparison.action?compareResultId=5699261&compareResultType=14

and this just shows not the most expensive hardware is better.

must not be able to read it does have my name um dragon_cpu um 10944

[Dragon_CPU]

Lol my single 7950GT and 3000+ gets over 6k. On my X2 it got about 7500 without my CPU OCed. So uh, thats not saying much comparing your card to an older gen. And theres no way you outperform a 9600GT, specialy if it is OCed.

Also, on everything stock i play CoD4 maxed as well, single card mind you.
my GS gets over 9000+ on stock and stock system.

Really hows crysis play on yours lol mine plays pretty well like i said high 4xAA med. shadows but that isnt bad when most are complaining about crysis. get about 25-30 fps avg 38 high 15 low but thats not bad. and yes i used there benchmark.

[werty316]

A 3dmark06 score doesn't mean squat when compared to real world benchmarks.

Maybe these will help clear your mind:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/EVGA/GeForce_8800_GS/6.html
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/VVIKOO/GeForce_9600_GT_Turbo/6.html

[Dragon_CPU]

A 3dmark06 score doesn't mean squat when compared to real world benchmarks.

Maybe these will help clear your mind:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/EVGA/GeForce_8800_GS/6.html
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/VVIKOO/GeForce_9600_GT_Turbo/6.html
Where can i get that bench at mine will score better than that that was like what the 580c clock version they used against the turbo 9600gt no much in the way of fairness.

actually i think that was the evga 550 clock

[werty316]

Well your 8800GS is factory overclocked which you overclocked further as shown below from your post so who now is saying there isn't much in the way of fairness when comparing your factory overclock 8800GS to a factory overclocked 9600GT?

XFX 8800GS 680c/1700s/1600m @ 720c/1800s/1900m

[Dragon_CPU]

Well your 8800GS is factory overclocked which you overclocked further as shown below from your post so who now is saying there isn't much in the way of fairness when comparing your factory overclock 8800GS to a factory overclocked 9600GT?


9600GT and 8800GS running stock in these reviews:
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2008/02/28/mainstream_graphics_performance_1q08/1
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2008/02/21/g94_nvidia_geforce_9600_gt_graphics_card/6
and like i said they used evga's 550 stock GS be a much closer comparison if they used XFX'es 580 stock look at the clocks on the 9600gt theres your answer of course the 9600 will win but if they get an evenly matched card say evgas 650 clocked then that would be a different story

of course they dont want to show that another card thats supposed to be lower is better or even close that would lose sells. especially for a new card.

[werty316]

Two reviews comparing a 9600GT and 8800GS with both video cards running at stock clock speeds:
(key words in that sentence: "9600GT", "8800GS", "Stock clock speeds".)

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2008/02/28/mainstream_graphics_performance_1q08/1
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2008/02/21/g94_nvidia_geforce_9600_gt_graphics_card/6

[Dragon_CPU]

like i said in previous post read it again. lol especially when the gs's price is much better than the 9600

[werty316]

Neither of last two reviews used an evga card. Did you even go through the two Bit-Tech review links I posted?

If you wanted a more definite comparison both cards need to be running at their default/stock clock speeds and those two Bit-Tech reviews show just that where a stock 9600Gt is faster than a stock 8800GS.

More icing on the cake, a 9600GT can be had for the same price as a 8800GS at one etailer that I know of.

I know it must be hard for you to admit it since you are all up in your 8800GS but a 9600GT is just faster.

Thats all there is pretty much to say and since this isn't a "9600GT vs. 8800GS" thread, I have nothing more to say.

[Dragon_CPU]

ok my bad but either way they still used the slowest stock clock they could get. and so i'll quit stepping on your toes we'll just say for giggles and grins mines better.

yes true but they could have used a higher stock clock card like XFX but then again XFX cards rock and the other brands dont hmmmmmm.

Oh by the way if you dont mind my asking what do you run graphics wise just curious.

[Andrew1990]

Well if I was to choose a 8800gs or 9600gt, I would still stick with the XFX brand for its warranty. They also have the cheapest versions of both cards.

I am leaning towards the GS just because the price is great at $109.99 after rebate on newegg. That way it wont break my bank.

[PP Mguire]

Good luck with that. My friend just built a new machine with e8400 and 9600GT eVGA. Ill have him bench it stock and see how it fairs against this POS 8800GS.

Oh, you play 4xAA medium? What res, 1024x768?

I play everything on high 1440x900 16xAF 2xAA. average 30fps. Thats on a game that dosent scale well. Of course comparing 7950gTs to 8800GS's is like apples and oranges.

All in all, the 9600GT is better whether you want to admit it or not.

[Andrew1990]

I know it is better but I would most likely need a new PSU. Even with the GS I might have to pick a new PSU up.

I play at 1024x768 with no AA or AF.

Right now I have a Hipro 400watt dual rail PSU with 12v1 12 amps 12v2 14amps.

Not much power.

[Dragon_CPU]

I know it is better but I would most likely need a new PSU. Even with the GS I might have to pick a new PSU up.

I play at 1024x768 with no AA or AF.

Right now I have a Hipro 400watt dual rail PSU with 12v1 12 amps 12v2 14amps.

Not much power.
No you can't run the GS on your current PS your 12v rail combined == 20.8amps. just in case you want to figure it out for yourself just add the 12v rails together and divide by 1.25 just look at the PS's and check the 2 12v rails yourself that way you know you get enough and can get the best price also. You need at least 26amps on single rail or combined rails. And depending on the one you want the 680 core clock XFX is the better buy if you can spend the extra still has $30 mir only (129.99 after MIR) Free Ship instead of the 109.99 but the 580 clock card is also good especially if you intend to OC.

Also the cheapest 9600GT XFX starts at 175.00 on newegg with $30.00 MIR

[the_dope_chaud]

I`m considering buying this one myself...

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=28577&promoid=1020

[Andrew1990]

Well, are there any PSUs that can run it for under $40?

[Dragon_CPU]

Well, are there any PSUs that can run it for under $40?
Here this should work 31 amps combined rails and PCI-express connector.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817339012

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817339001

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817121024

Any of these will work the first 2 have 31 amps on 2 combined rails the last is at 26.4 amps all under 40.00. Take your pick.

http://service.futuremark.com/results/showAllResults.action

[PP Mguire]

Lol Ive run this machine - 1 7950GT on a 380watt HP PSU with 18amps on the 12v rail. It would be ok you just have to make sure it runs cool and you cant game 24/7.

[Dragon_CPU]

Lol Ive run this machine - 1 7950GT on a 380watt HP PSU with 18amps on the 12v rail. It would be ok you just have to make sure it runs cool and you cant game 24/7.
It may be OK if he doesnt get the video insufficient power message popping up all the time as some of these newer nvidia cards tend to do. Not sure if the GS does or not because I bought a sufficient PSU off the bat. Just a chance youd have to take.

[werty316]

Having more amps/wattage never hurts and its better to be safe than sorry.

[Dragon_CPU]

Having more amps/wattage never hurts and its better to be safe than sorry.
Exactly what he said.

[werty316]

A PSU is like the "heart" of the computer and if you run it with a crappy "heart"(PSU), it'll start having "heart attacks" so I suggest putting more funds into your PSU budget so you can get a good model as $40 isn't gonna get you much of anything that is half decent.

You get what you pay for and if you skimp out when buying a PSU, you might pay the price later down the road.

[MrX]

Two reviews comparing a 9600GT and 8800GS with both video cards running at stock clock speeds:
(key words in that sentence: "9600GT", "8800GS", "Stock clock speeds".)

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2008/02/28/mainstream_graphics_performance_1q08/1
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2008/02/21/g94_nvidia_geforce_9600_gt_graphics_card/6

The 9600gt is cheating in those benchmarks compared with 8800gs or 8800gt. 9600gt is using updated cheat drivers while 8800gt and 8800gs is using old crap drivers. I know for a fact 174.xx drivers have many tweaks in them especially Crysis, Unreal 3 benches which 9600gt was used in those benchmarks. This has been proven as fact.

8800gs is downclocked on those benches. All 8800gs does 700/1728/1000 clocks. EVGA has 1ns video memory good for 1000mhz and beyond. Core is same as 8800gt and can easily handle 700 and shaders to 1700+ as well. 9600gt performs more like 3850. It's just good with AA. It's no secret Nvidia is trying to push the 9 series because 9600gt is cheap to make and lure consumers with only 64SP that won't last long.

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/?menu=browser&article_id=633746&entity_id=-1&image_id=781525&mode=article&overview=yes

http://www.alcomsplace.com/ut3_bench_forceware_charts.htm


Nvidia Test System

* Nvidia GeForce 9600 GT 512MB – operating at 650/1,625/1,800MHz using Forceware 174.12 beta
* Nvidia GeForce 8800 GT 512MB – operating at 600/1,500/1,800MHz using Forceware 169.28 beta
* Nvidia GeForce 8800 GS 384MB – operating at 550/1,375/1,600MHz using Forceware 169.32 WHQL
* BFGTech GeForce 8800 GTS 512MB – operating at 675/1,674/1,940MHz using Forceware 169.28 beta

[MrX]

Good luck with that. My friend just built a new machine with e8400 and 9600GT eVGA. Ill have him bench it stock and see how it fairs against this POS 8800GS.

Oh, you play 4xAA medium? What res, 1024x768?

I play everything on high 1440x900 16xAF 2xAA. average 30fps. Thats on a game that dosent scale well. Of course comparing 7950gTs to 8800GS's is like apples and oranges.

All in all, the 9600GT is better whether you want to admit it or not.

You have no idea what you are talking about. :roll:

8800gs is actually more powerful than 9600gt. 9600gt has more memory bandwidth and pixel fillrate. Everything else 8800gs dominates. If you are on a low resolution like 1280x1024, 8800gs is ideal and would last you longer than 9600gt. Lot of these 8800gs is underclocked. It can be overclocked to 25+% more especially the EVGA model with 1 ns ram. XFX uses 1.4ns ram which isn't very good.

8800gs has 96SP a 9600gt has only 64SP. Not to mention 33% more texture fillrate. Currently 8800gs = 9600gt in raw performance. 9600gt is better with AA. When more shader games arrive 9600gt will slowly deteriorate in performance and 8800gs>9600gt.

[Dragon_CPU]

You have no idea what you are talking about. :roll:

8800gs is actually more powerful than 9600gt. 9600gt has more memory bandwidth and pixel fillrate. Everything else 8800gs dominates. If you are on a low resolution like 1280x1024, 8800gs is ideal and would last you longer than 9600gt. Lot of these 8800gs is underclocked. It can be overclocked to 25+% more especially the EVGA model with 1 ns ram. XFX uses 1.4ns ram which isn't very good.

8800gs has 96SP a 9600gt has only 64SP. Not to mention 33% more texture fillrate. Currently 8800gs = 9600gt in raw performance. 9600gt is better with AA. When more shader games arrive 9600gt will slowly deteriorate in performance and 8800gs>9600gt.
Here you go exactly what i said look at my SIG this is my 8800GS and it flys at these clocks and they are permenant in bios perfectly stable.
Yep XFX ram only stable up to 950. shader can go higher but these clocks are smokin... LOL
At this clock my memory bandwidth is at 45gb/s while the 9600 is running at 57gb/s not that big of a difference. My texture fillrate is 30.2 while the 9600 is only 20.8....

[MrX]

Here you go exactly what i said look at my SIG this is my 8800GS and it flys at these clocks and they are permenant in bios perfectly stable.
Yep XFX ram only stable up to 950. shader can go higher but these clocks are smokin... LOL
At this clock my memory bandwidth is at 45gb/s while the 9600 is running at 57gb/s not that big of a difference. My texture fillrate is 30.2 while the 9600 is only 20.8....

Only if you bought the EVGA model you would have had more bandwidth for upper resolutions. It don't matter though because core is where it's at. Memory bandwidth is useless without core. People just don't understand. They look at few benchmarks with AA performing better and they automatically think it's better.

Of course 9600gt is better with AA than 8800gs. It has 128mb more vram and more memory bandwidth. Take out the AA and that 8800gs>9600gt.

BTW your texture fillrate is 34560 theoretically. Anyways it's 33% more than 9600gt.

[MrX]

http://members.cox.net/marvelous211/Crysis.jpg

http://members.cox.net/marvelous211/Prostreet.jpg

http://members.cox.net/marvelous211/3dmark.jpg

This was done 1440x900 resolution.

[tyle6]

Yea, but the 9600GT scales better.
So all in all your better to go with a 9600GT and SLI it after the drop in price to the sub $100 range.
Toss up all the benchies and links you want, untill you can show me 90% scaling in SLI on an 8 series card the 9600GT takes the cake.

[MrX]

Yea, but the 9600GT scales better.
So all in all your better to go with a 9600GT and SLI it after the drop in price to the sub $100 range.
Toss up all the benchies and links you want, untill you can show me 90% scaling in SLI on an 8 series card the 9600GT takes the cake.

Yeah because they are using cheat drivers to make it scale better than 8800xx model. Too bad for you new drivers are available for 8800xx now. 9600gt is a budget card that isn't going to last with only 64SP. This has been proven again and again where a game require more shader the cards fall flat on their face like all the Geforce 7 series. Don't tell me because Geforce 7 series have massive pixel fillrate and memory bandwidth but they suck now. :dielaffin:

[tyle6]

Yeah because they are using cheat drivers to make it scale better than 8800xx model
ROFL, you make me laugh. The 8 series cards have tested using the newer drivers aswell look around, they dont scale any better with them infact take a performance hit usually. This is why you see the cards tested with older drivers, there most optimals drivers per the core...
Oh yea, and my 7600GT's in SLI actually woops my 7800GT 256mb depending on the games SLI optimization... Heck with a lil OCing I can get a single card to pretty much keep up with this 7800GT. Too bad they dont play nice in SLI OCed... Or scale any better with beta driver.

[werty316]

Cheater drivers :dielaffin:

I think I remember reading an article showing that these "cheat drivers" as you call them didn't help much with performance in the 8800(G92) cards. The improved scaling in the 9600GT cards is more than just some "cheat drivers". I'll see if I can find the article.

When it comes to a video card performance, its not all about the amount shader processors (take the R600/EV670 for example).

[MrX]

ROFL, you make me laugh. The 8 series cards have tested using the newer drivers aswell look around, they dont scale any better with them infact take a performance hit usually. This is why you see the cards tested with older drivers, there most optimals drivers per the core...
Oh yea, and my 7600GT's in SLI actually woops my 7800GT 256mb depending on the games SLI optimization... Heck with a lil OCing I can get a single card to pretty much keep up with this 7800GT. Too bad they dont play nice in SLI OCed... Or scale any better with beta driver.

Why don't you post a link. I have evidence to back up my claim unlike bating trolls like you. Read the previous page.

You have no idea what you are talking about with GPU. Please do not speak.

[Miker]

SLI with a 9 card is way better then an 8, it is not just a cheat driver. It is not a good idea to be insulting people when you just joined this forum.

[tyle6]

I have no need to link to topics already discussed here on this forum. Go for a browse there's more then one topic on the 9600GT and its scaling.
Im sorry if I insulted you with saying you made me laugh, it was directed to how you refer to a set of unreleased drivers as "cheat" drivers and not at you personally.

[MrX]

SLI with a 9 card is way better then an 8, it is not just a cheat driver. It is not a good idea to be insulting people when you just joined this forum.

Sorry if I came off like I'm insulting people but the mass always seem to just follow whatever they see without any reasoning. I might be new this forum but I've been around far longer than most of the people here with some wisdom under my belt in the industry.

How is it better? Please do tell. G94 is just a neutered G92 chip with 64SP. :thanks:

[srpeters18]

It's better because it scales at somewhere around 80%. You couldn't touch that with any 8800.

[MrX]

It's better because it scales at somewhere around 80%. You couldn't touch that with any 8800.

When you see the reviews they are using new 174 drivers on 9600gt and 8800gt is using 169 drivers. Nvidia has improved the drivers on purpose for 9600gt to push it into more sales even though it is much weaker chip than G92. For Nvidia it is cheaper to produce G94 than G92. If you read the previous page I have linked where 169 drivers do considerably worse than 174 drivers with evidence backing up my claim.

They are same core and there's NO improvement between G92 vs G94. G94 is just a neutered chip with 64SP.

Don't get me wrong 9600gt performs strong as of now and does good with filters because it has same memory bandwidth and vram as 8800gt and more pixel fillrate. When you look at the raw performance however it doesn't even come close to 8800gt.


9600gt is a card where you get the performance now with all the filters on but in the long run 8800gs is better suited with 96SP especially if you are running a smaller monitor. If you have 20-22" monitor though you should be picking up 9600gt but it would be better to pick the 8800gt or 3870 instead.


If you look at history in the video card industry the card with better shader performance out performs it in the end. It doesn't matter how much more pixel fillrate you have or memory bandwidth. Just look at all the Geforce 7 series with massive pixel fillrate and memory bandwidth. It has failed miserably with modern games while ATI still can play games on high settings because ATI was smart enough to stick 3fragmented pipes into their rop.


However I wouldn't SLI a 8800gs though because of the memory limitations. 9600gt would be better. 2 64SP would be ample enough for a quite long time anyways.

[werty316]

174.xx drivers don't help the performance on the 8800 cards like it does on the 9600GT; the reason for this is nVidia must have tweaked the G94 core. Drivers don't magically make one card faster while it doesn't for another. I wish I can find the article I was talking about then it'll show you.

How is it better? Please do tell. G94 is just a neutered G92 chip with 64SP. :thanks:
Well the 8800GS is just a "neutered" G92 with only 96 process shaders, plus the 8800GS uses a 128-bit bus as apposed to the better 256-bit bus in the 9600GT.

[MrX]

174.xx drivers don't help the performance on the 8800 cards like it does on the 9600GT; the reason for this is nVidia must have tweaked the G94 core. Drivers don't magically make one card faster while it doesn't for another. I wish I can find the article I was talking about then it'll show you.

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/?menu=browser&article_id=633746&entity_id=-1&image_id=781525&mode=article&overview=yes

http://www.alcomsplace.com/ut3_bench_forceware_charts.htm

Please do look at the benchmarks and put your input on it.



Well the 8800GS is just a "neutered" G92 with only 96 process shaders, plus the 8800GS uses a 128-bit bus as apposed to the better 256-bit bus in the 9600GT.

Yes of course but 96SP is in tact unlike 9600gt. 8800gs will be 33% faster in the long run with 33% more shader. As a single card. 8800gs is better suited in the long run.

[werty316]

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2008/02/28/mainstream_graphics_performance_1q08/1

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2008/02/21/g94_nvidia_geforce_9600_gt_graphics_card/6

Please do read the article and put your input on it. :dielaffin:

EDIT: If quite funny how you are only basing the numbers on Crysis.

Anyhow I've argued before on this "8800GS vs. 9600GT" off topic fight and am not gonna go through it again when the numbers are there with the 9600GT edging out your precious 8800GS.

[MrX]

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2008/02/28/mainstream_graphics_performance_1q08/1

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2008/02/21/g94_nvidia_geforce_9600_gt_graphics_card/6

Please do read the article and put your input on it. :dielaffin:

EDIT: If quite funny how you are only basing the numbers on Crysis.

Anyhow I've argued before on this "8800GS vs. 9600GT" off topic fight and am not gonna go through it again when the numbers are there with the 9600GT edging out your precious 8800GS.

See the ignorance and stupidity of people some people have to deal with day in day out? :confused:

I mean this is a guy with 10000 posts under his belt brainwashing the people on this forum. Quite pathetic don't you think?

Look at the drivers version which I've been talking about in the link you provided.


9600gt using 174.12 beta

8800gs using 169.32 WHQL

[werty316]

What do drivers have to do with how both cards performed? 174.xx drivers seem to only really show any sort of effect on performance in Crysis rendered in DX10 which you alone only care about even though other games are benchmarked.

Mmm lets see: http://www.pcgameshardware.de/?menu=browser&article_id=633746&entity_id=154104&image_id=781521&mode=article&overview=yes
Nope 174 doesn't give a performance boost there.

Not here either: http://www.pcgameshardware.de/?menu=browser&article_id=633746&entity_id=154104&image_id=781520&mode=article&overview=yes

Also: http://www.pcgameshardware.de/?menu=browser&article_id=633746&entity_id=154104&image_id=781519&mode=article&overview=yes
Nothing.

Maybe I can get lucky and see a huge performance boost in this one: http://www.alcomsplace.com/ut3_bench_forceware_charts.htm
I guess not.

Should I keep going?

As for brainwashing everyone on this forum, I didn't know we were all robots :dielaffin:

BTW kudos to you for being a new member and flaming pretty much everyone who said the 9600GT is the better choice :clap:

[Miker]

BTW kudos to you for being a new member and flaming pretty much everyone who said the 9600GT is the better choice :clap:

2nd that, grats on 10k posts too.

[werty316]

:offtopic:

Woohoo I didn't even notice.

Good eye Miker :beerchug:

Now if there was only a way I could convert them into money :bling:

[MrX]

What do drivers have to do with how both cards performed? 174.xx drivers seem to only really show any sort of effect on performance in Crysis rendered in DX10 which you alone only care about even though other games are benchmarked.

Mmm lets see: http://www.pcgameshardware.de/?menu=browser&article_id=633746&entity_id=154104&image_id=781521&mode=article&overview=yes
Nope 174 doesn't give a performance boost there.

Not here either: http://www.pcgameshardware.de/?menu=browser&article_id=633746&entity_id=154104&image_id=781520&mode=article&overview=yes

Also: http://www.pcgameshardware.de/?menu=browser&article_id=633746&entity_id=154104&image_id=781519&mode=article&overview=yes
Nothing.

Maybe I can get lucky and see a huge performance boost in this one: http://www.alcomsplace.com/ut3_bench_forceware_charts.htm
I guess not.

Should I keep going?

As for brainwashing everyone on this forum, I didn't know we were all robots :dielaffin:

BTW kudos to you for being a new member and flaming pretty much everyone who said the 9600GT is the better choice :clap:

Your link shows improvement with 174 drivers. Although minor with COD4 it shows huge gains across the board with Unreal 3 and Crysis.

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/?menu=browser&article_id=633746&entity_id=-1&image_id=781525&mode=article&overview=yes

http://www.alcomsplace.com/ut3_bench_forceware_charts.htm

Your ignorance is astounding. :thumleft:

Of course you are programmed to believe everything you see and hear. That is typical human behavior not robot.

Look at your own results of bittech article in COD4 performance. Underclocked GS is good as 9600gt @ 1900x1200 and beats it in 2560x1600 1280x1024 1680x1050 resolution without AA when vram or memory bandwidth isn't an issue. I never said 9600gt isn't good with filters but the raw performance is rather weak.

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2008/02/21/g94_nvidia_geforce_9600_gt_graphics_card/8

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2008/02/28/mainstream_graphics_performance_1q08/3

[Miker]

MrX, I like the way you argue, I am going to start doing it!

My 7950GT AGP 512m is faster then your 8800Gs 256m at 1900x1200 with 3.245x AA, and 15.21 AS, but only with a Gateway CRT Monitor.

You can't argue saying it is betting in one case, in general the 9600 is a better card, but the 8800GS in some odd cases might beat it.

[MrX]

MrX, I like the way you argue, I am going to start doing it!

My 7950GT AGP 512m is faster then your 8800Gs 256m at 1900x1200 with 3.245x AA, and 15.21 AS, but only with a Gateway CRT Monitor.

You can't argue saying it is betting in one case, in general the 9600 is a better card, but the 8800GS in some odd cases might beat it.

Oh come on Mike. You are not really being reasonable or making any sense. 7950gt can't beat no 8800gs in any game with or without filters.

8800gs has 384mb vram first of all. It has better raw performance than 9600gt. 9600gt is good with filters because of extra vram and memory bandwidth.

Both cards have strengths and weakness. I'm just pointing them out.

[werty316]

He was being sarcastic...

EDIT:
8800GS has 384MB, well 9600GT has 512MB.
8800GS has a 192-bit bus, 9600GT has 256-bit bus.

BTW I don't know where you get your information from but stock clocks of the 384MB version of the 8800GS are 550/1375/1600.

Miker I would just ignore this guy from now on.

[MrX]

He was being sarcastic you f'in botard.

Miker I would just ignore this guy.



No wonder this site isn't doing too good and trying to lure members by bribe contests!

[srpeters18]

:pointand:

What a hero. Oh well.

[MrX]

EDIT:
8800GS has 384MB, well 9600GT has 512MB.
8800GS has a 192-bit bus, 9600GT has 256-bit b

BTW I don't know where you get your information from but stock clocks of the 384MB version of the 8800GS are 550/1375/1600.


Now you change your profanity. Shows your true colors.

8800gs that was tested was 550/1375/1600 but the gem of these chips are that they are really 75% of the full blown G92GTS chips that can be clocked accordingly.

My EVGA does 730/1782/2100

At these clocks it is faster than 9600gt in raw performance by 15% at least. Again with filters it doesn't do as good because of lower vram and bandwidth.

[Miker]

Now you change your profanity. Shows your true colors.

8800gs that was tested was 550/1375/1600 but the gem of these chips are that they are really 75% of the full blown G92GTS chips that can be clocked accordingly.

My EVGA does 730/1782/2100

At these clocks it is faster than 9600gt in raw performance by 15% at least. Again with filters it doesn't do as good because of lower vram and bandwidth.

That is like saying my 3.4Ghz P4 is faster then a 2.66Ghz C2D...

[werty316]

Now you change your profanity. Shows your true colors.

Well I don't want to get banned because of you :na:


My EVGA does 730/1782/2100

At these clocks it is faster than 9600gt in raw performance by 15% at least. Again with filters it doesn't do as good because of lower vram and bandwidth.
Is an overclocked 8800GS a fair fight against a stock 9600GT? I think not.

Overclock the 9600GT and we'll see who is faster.

[MrX]

Well I don't want to get banned because of you :na:

Real mature there. :beerchug:

[MrX]

That is like saying my 3.4Ghz P4 is faster then a 2.66Ghz C2D...

Exactly my point. 9600gt is like p4 3.4ghz and 8800gs is like 2.66ghz C2D. :exactly:

[srpeters18]

No wonder this site isn't doing too good and trying to lure members by bribe contests!

Yeah, I can see you changed yours around as well. But that's okay because Scott (you know, one of those admins you were so enamored with) can see what was written before the edit.

[werty316]

Exactly my point. 9600gt is like p4 3.4ghz and 8800gs is like 2.66ghz C2D. :exactly:
:dielaffin:

I guess you do want to get banned since you said this:
No wonder this site isn't doing too good and trying to lure members by bribe contests!

-------------

Anyhow I am done with this debate. Try not to get yourselves banned because of this guy everyone.

[MrX]

Is an overclocked 8800GS a fair fight against a stock 9600GT? I think not.

Overclock the 9600GT and we'll see who is faster.

In raw performance OC 8800gs> OC 9600gt. With AA 9600gt>8800gs :clap:

[srpeters18]

Exactly my point. 9600gt is like p4 3.4ghz and 8800gs is like 2.66ghz C2D. :exactly:

And I'm pretty sure his point was that just because the clock speed is higher doesn't make something faster. I had a PD 3.0 ghz that couldn't touch a 2.66 ghz C2D or my 2.4 ghz C2Q

[MrX]

I guess you do want to get banned since you said this:


-------------

Anyhow I am done with this debate.

You also need to get banned for using profanity. :pointand:

[MrX]

And I'm pretty sure his point was that just because the clock speed is higher doesn't make something faster. I had a PD 3.0 ghz that couldn't touch a 2.66 ghz C2D or my 2.4 ghz C2Q

My point exactly. 9600gt is clocked higher 8800gs is not. With 96SP it does more flops than 9600gt with 64SP.

[srpeters18]

I don't know, he never bilittled the mods or owner of this site. And he's been around for almost 4 years. That carries a lot more weight than somebody that's been here less than a month that started this off by calling the other party a troll

[MrX]

Yeah, I can see you changed yours around as well. But that's okay because Scott (you know, one of those admins you were so enamored with) can see what was written before the edit.

Only because the troll did it first. I just follow the leader with 10000 posts it's all. He must know the norm around here. :naughty:

[srpeters18]

My point exactly. 9600gt is clocked higher 8800gs is not. With 96SP it does more flops than 9600gt with 64SP.

No, because you were comparing the clocks on an overclocked GS to a stock 9600. Nobody cares what you clocked your GS at, its still an 8800GS. And remember, not everybody will get those kind of clocks out of it.

[MrX]

I don't know, he never bilittled the mods or owner of this site. And he's been around for almost 4 years. That carries a lot more weight than somebody that's been here less than a month that started this off by calling the other party a troll

I've been in the industry since the 1980's. I bet most of you weren't even born then. :whistler:

[MrX]

No, because you were comparing the clocks on an overclocked GS to a stock 9600. Nobody cares what you clocked your GS at, its still an 8800GS. And remember, not everybody will get those kind of clocks out of it.

Nope. I'm just trying to put into perspective. Lot of these 8800gs are underclocked on purpose. Most 8800gs overclock 25% core 25% shader 30% on the memory.

[srpeters18]

Well, I was born in 82 and I've learned something over time too. Being old doesn't make you any smarter than anyone else. The attitude that you've presented here that suggests otherwise is proof of that. In my short 26 years I've done things that most people wouldn't consider, seen things that many can't comprehend. But guess what? Doesn't make me better than anybody else. Also doesn't make me right about everything. Sure, I like to be right too, but come on. If you've been working in the industry since the 80's I dare say that you are at least in your mid-thirties. So why the childish remarks?

[MrX]

No, because you were comparing the clocks on an overclocked GS to a stock 9600. Nobody cares what you clocked your GS at, its still an 8800GS. And remember, not everybody will get those kind of clocks out of it.

You might want to step out of this small forum and go into a bigger one and see the results are people are getting.

EVGA 8800gs are guaranteed 700/1700/1000

XFX 8800gs are guaranteed 700+/1700+/800

[srpeters18]

Nope. I'm just trying to put into perspective. Lot of these 8800gs are underclocked on purpose. Most 8800gs overclock 25% core 25% shader 30% on the memory.

Well, if the 9600GT is a crippled G92 then what's to say you couldn't overclock it either? I've got an 8800GT, most definetely not crippled, and I still was able to overclock the core to 710, shader I can't remember (and I'm 3000 miles from home right now, so can't check) and memory to 2000. But you know what, there really wasn't a huge performance increase. Maybe 600 points in 3dMark06. Clocks will only get you so much.

[MrX]

Well, I was born in 82 and I've learned something over time too. Being old doesn't make you any smarter than anyone else. The attitude that you've presented here that suggests otherwise is proof of that. In my short 26 years I've done things that most people wouldn't consider, seen things that many can't comprehend. But guess what? Doesn't make me better than anybody else. Also doesn't make me right about everything. Sure, I like to be right too, but come on. If you've been working in the industry since the 80's I dare say that you are at least in your mid-thirties. So why the childish remarks?

Never said it did but I do have a lot of knowledge about how video cards work. Please don't think you are the only one who experienced life. Everyone goes through it.

[Miker]

EVGA 8800gs are guaranteed 700/1700/1000

XFX 8800gs are guaranteed 700+/1700+/800

No comment to a remark like that. :party:

[srpeters18]

You might want to step out of this small forum and go into a bigger one and see the results are people are getting.

EVGA 8800gs are guaranteed 700/1700/1000

XFX 8800gs are guaranteed 700+/1700+/800

I am a member of the EVGA forums, just don't post there much. Read plenty. The only thing you are guaranteed is what it says on the side of the box. If you've been in the industry since the 80s, you should know that nobody will guarantee a certain overclock. They guarantee what it comes at stock.

[Miker]

I am a member of the EVGA forums, just don't post there much. Read plenty. The only thing you are guaranteed is what it says on the side of the box. If you've been in the industry since the 80s, you should know that nobody will guarantee a certain overclock. They guarantee what it comes at stock.

Unless that card comes OCed.

[srpeters18]

Never said it did but I do have a lot of knowledge about how video cards work. Please don't think you are the only one who experienced life. Everyone goes through it.

Exactly, so quit assuming you know more than everybody else here.

[srpeters18]

Unless that card comes OCed.

Yep, I've got one of those, but I still got more out of it.

[MrX]

Well, if the 9600GT is a crippled G92 then what's to say you couldn't overclock it either? I've got an 8800GT, most definetely not crippled, and I still was able to overclock the core to 710, shader I can't remember (and I'm 3000 miles from home right now, so can't check) and memory to 2000. But you know what, there really wasn't a huge performance increase. Maybe 600 points in 3dMark06. Clocks will only get you so much.

You have a powerful card. It is nearly 80% more flop than a 9600gt can handle. Your gt was a good investment. A 9600gt is really short term.

Recent games aren't shader limited for your 8800gt can't handle. When it does you can rest assure your performance to take a bigger lead over 9600gt.

9600gt does good with AA but it doesn't even come close 8800gt raw performance. Currently 8800gt is 22.5% faster and that gap narrows when AA is applied because AA has to do with memory bandwidth than Shader.

Check it out where your 8800gt stands over 9600gt.

http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/hardware/grafikkarten/2008/test_nvidia_geforce_9600_gt_sli/24/#abschnitt_performancerating_qualitaet

[MrX]

Exactly, so quit assuming you know more than everybody else here.

I do know quite a bit more than most people about GPU though. :bowdown:

[MrX]

No comment to a remark like that. :party:

Step out of bjorn bubble and you'll see the light.

[srpeters18]

I wasn't planning on trading the old 8800GT for a 9600 have no doubts about that.

Was just looking at the SSC version of the 9600GT and it comes with a 740 core and 1950 mem (shaders not listed on the splash page and I'm too lazy to go looking) so it looks pretty decent there too, wonder how much further you could push it?

[MrX]

I am a member of the EVGA forums, just don't post there much. Read plenty. The only thing you are guaranteed is what it says on the side of the box. If you've been in the industry since the 80s, you should know that nobody will guarantee a certain overclock. They guarantee what it comes at stock.

But you see they are clocked lower on the same process as the 8800gt. EVGA uses 1ns vram is supposed to run 1000mhz.

What does your 8800gt run on the core and shader? Don't tell me you can't get 700mhz out of the core or 1700mhz on shader. :icon_tiphat:

[MrX]

I wasn't planning on trading the old 8800GT for a 9600 have no doubts about that.

Was just looking at the SSC version of the 9600GT and it comes with a 740 core and 1950 mem (shaders not listed on the splash page and I'm too lazy to go looking) so it looks pretty decent there too, wonder how much further you could push it?

Again you probably looked at Anti Aliasing results where memory bandwidth and pixel fillrate plays a vital role. Take out the filters and you'll see 9600gt weakness.

[srpeters18]

I'm at 710 core and over 1800 on the shader, I believe but again, I can't check it from here, its in California, I'm in SC.

[MrX]

I'm at 710 core and over 1800 on the shader, I believe but again, I can't check it from here, its in California, I'm in SC.

My point exactly. I have my 8800gs running 730core 1780SP. These clocks are the norm if you have a ventilated case.

[MrX]

http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/67909965/m/453004231931

You might want to check this out. I've helped push BFG10k to do the benches to show how games are effected with SP, core clocks, Memory bandwidth...

Although modern games aren't effected as much with BFG's Ultra 128 Stream processor it does give out better raw performance than memory bandwidth alone. Bandwidth is better with AA performance.

9600gt is a different breed. Although the core is clocked higher its SP are only 64 which would have detrimental effect when more shader intensive games arrive. 9600gt wasn't meant to last long. It is a budget card and cheaper to produce but great now with Anti Aliasing.

http://members.cox.net/marvelous211/pixel%20fillrate.jpg
As you can see, pixel fillrate does hold back by memory bandwidth to a certain extent but core clock speed increases does more than memory bandwidth alone.

http://members.cox.net/marvelous211/texture%20fillrate.jpg
texure fillrate has nothing to do with memory bandwidth probably because these SP on G8x and G9x are handled through shader.

[srpeters18]

Oops double post

[MrX]

Reason why 9600gt does so well with AA where SP isn't the bottleneck but memory bandwidth.

Anti Aliasing is like blowing your resolutions to get rid of jaggies.

Say you have 4xAA @ 1440x900. You'll need the same memory bandwdith and vram to play @ 1920x1200 without AA. 2xAA would be like 1680x1050.

This is where 8800gs is weaker than 9600gt especially 1600x1200 and higher resolutions with AA. Other wise it is a more powerful gpu.

[tyle6]

Sigh, The 9600GT still scales better then any 8 series card. No matter the drivers.
I'll take a 9600GT anyday and add a second in time for some killer performance.
So all in all depending on what sort of route you plan on going the 9600GT is a better option if you have the ability to scale in the future. No stream proccesor issue in the future for this card when it scales as well as it does for as cheap as it is.
hey , dont get me wrong the 8800GS is a killer card for the price, For me the 9600GT is def. the answer though. Can't wait to get my hands on a couple.

[MrX]

Just trying to put things into perspective it is all. :beerchug:

The driver fiasco was dissected by many hardware sites. Again there is nothing different about G94 and G92 except it is missing SP and half the texture fillrate. It is updated drivers over G92. Those drivers are already released to the public however and been tested that Nvidia was boosting performance with 9600gt to push the weaker chip. Nvidia is a business after all who wants to take your money. If everyone was so educated Nvidia would go broke. Maybe not. :P

You can't really say one card is better than the other when they perform so close to one another. 8800gs has strengths and weaknesses just like 9600gt has strengths and weaknesses.

I would choose a 9600gt if I had a 20"-22" monitor and want to turn on AA and going to upgrade frequently. A 3870 or 8800gt would be better though in the long run.

I only have a 19" monitor which doesn't effect 8800gs 384 vram.

Fallout would be the game where 9600 would meet it's match coming sometime this year? The guys who created Oblivion which made the top cards at the time craw is making this game that is very very shader intensive. Only time will tell.

[MrX]

http://en.expreview.com/2008/03/25/nvidia-sli-performance-scaling-test/5/

Nvidia forceware 174.16 vs 169.xx scaing on 8800gt.

When 9600gt was tested they were using 174 drivers every time and 8800gt or 8800gs used older 169 drivers.

The new driver have some improvement, but not as much as SLI.174.16WHQL boosting the card 6.43% more than 169.28beta and 169.28 is 1% more than 169.02 WHQL.