Heat probs...part 2

[Munga]

Ok, I put this here because I there is no section for cooling and I figured all you overclockers should have good cooling solutions.

Currently my GPU is running at 45c at Idle with 99% fan speed. I have great airflow and my case is starting to sound like a jet engine b/c of the fans.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/Munga/100_2800.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/Munga/100_2799.jpg

I should mention that none of those cabels are in the airflow of the 2 foreward induction fans. I have a 120mm in the back, one 90mm exhaust at the top and the 90mm induction on the side. The graphics card has the factory fan that vents out the back.

Asus MB A8n-SLI prem
Dual core AMD 4400+ (not overclocked with Zalman 9000 series fan - can't remember model right now)
4 gb DDR 400
EVGA 8800 GTS 512mb factory overclock 670mhz
Ultra 1000watt PSU

I live in Lake Tahoe - while not a hot place, last weekend it was in the upper 80's and we do not have airconditioning, so ambient temps in the house were just over 80. Also, I am at 7000' above sea level so the air is super dry and heats up real fast. I have never had this problem with this build until I installed the 8800GTS with the factory overclock of 670mhz and added 2 more GB of DDR400. But since the weather got hot, my PC gives the BSD after serious gaming or PSCS3 editing.

I am considering liquid cooling, but the reviews have left me unconvinced ...not to mention the pricing.

[bobletman]

The only thing I could think of is getting more heat sinks and more fans and possibly just removing the side panel off your computer. But your best bet is to get a custom heatsink and fan for your gpu.

[Goliath182]

Like botletman said add fans. You can also change your 1200mm fan to one that has higher CFM. Other than that theres not much else you can do except go to water cooling.

[bobletman]

Actually there is one other thing. I have seen side panels that have 1 MASSIVE fan on the side that keep comps really cool.
Here are a couple of links.

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.virtual-hideout.net/reviews/enermax_chakra/images/image10.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.virtual-hideout.net/reviews/enermax_chakra/index.shtml&h=600&w=800&sz=69&hl=en&start=17&um=1&tbnid=a9I6x29SomidLM:&tbnh=107&tbnw=143&prev=/images%3Fq%3DMassive%2Bfan%2Bon%2Bside%2Bpanel%2Bo f%2Bcomputer%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa% 3DG
http://computershopper.com/shoptalk/images/silverstone-fn83-pc-fan.jpg
http://resume.jbhfile.com/temp/side_fan1.jpg

[Sadasius]

Like botletman said add fans. You can also change your 1200mm fan to one that has higher CFM. Other than that theres not much else you can do except go to water cooling.

He has a 1200mm fan (1 200 millimeters = 47.2440945 inches)??? Holy smokeez! Yeah I know its a typo.....But yeah as suggested get a bigger fan. I have a couple 250mm fans and they move mucho air and do it pretty quietly. Mind you they also cost a pretty penny too. But your side door has room to move to a better size fan. The bigger the better as it will move more air and do it much quieter then a high rev 90mm.

You don't want to go the water cooling route unless you plan to spend some money and are not too lazy to do the maintenance involved. Even then you are still using fans for the rad(s) etc etc.

[Goliath182]

Lol woops yes thats a big fan.

You have to take in mind that one outtake fan is optimum and it looks to me like he isnt getting enough outtake. Adding a fan that blows on your CPU could lower temps there. On my P4 just settin a 80mm low CFM fan lowered its temps by 2 C.

[Sadasius]

Actually he is getting to much outtake and not enough intake to keep positive air pressure going. Or else the air will be pulled in from any gap in your case and cause dust buildup like around the dvd drives etc etc. When you have too much outtake the intake air is not doing anything as it is getting exhausted before doing what it is supposed to do which is cool things down. When you factor in his PSU fan, the back fan and the top fan all exhausting towards the upper left corner it is no wonder you have a heat problem. You have to have more air going in. A nice big fat fan right on the side will do it. Just have to order a 250mm fan, cut a hole, screw it on (use a black stocking over the provided grill) and watch your temps drop.

[werty316]

Take the side panel off else theres not really much you can do as far as installing more fans since your case should have 4 fan pre-installed:

1 x 80mm UV blue LED fan - front (included)
1 x 80mm UV blue LED fan - top (included)
1 x 80mm UV blue LED fan - side (included)
1 x 120mm UV blue LED fan - rear (included)
1 x 80mm fan -front between front panel and 3.5" drive cage (optional)

Source: http://aspireusa.net/product.php?pid=74

[Sadasius]

Take the side panel off.

Still not that effective however as the outtake fans will just nudge air across components as opposed to intake air actually blowing them down with cool air. That's why some people say that taking the side panel off did not help too much. Not to mention the dust you will collect.

To move this point even better when I was having problems with my older video card the tech told me to remove my side panel. I had positive air pressure in my case and when I took off the side panel which held 2 intake fans my video card temp rose 6 degrees. The tech on the phone was confused by this and I had to explain positive air pressure to him. Needless to say he told me to put it back on...lol

[werty316]

Taking the side panel off means you'll get less restrictive fresh air sucked into the case.

I don't know about you but when mine is off my temps decrease as apposed to if the side panel was installed and on. You do a test of your temps with and without your side panel off.

Having postive air pressure will decrease your temps as much as leaving the side panel off since the ambient temperature doesn't magically decrease regardless if the air pressure in your case is negative or positive.

Only scenario I could think of where your video card's temperature would increase when the side panel is off is if your video card was passively cooled.

One key ingredient with airflow is the ambient temperature, you could have all the fastest fans in the world cooling your computer but it won't matter if the ambient temperature is hot.

Munga, 80°F(~26°C) is quite warm but I still suggest you give leaving the side panel off a try as it won't hurt.

[Sadasius]

Nope. My fans were blowing directly on the video card. To remove heat using air the air has to be moving. In a negative pressure environment they outtake fans will grab air from wherever it can find it from the paths of least resistance. When you take the panel off it could do two things depending on your setup.

1) If you have a negative pressure environment then your temps could decrease but not by a whole lot as the outtake fans will be grabbing air closest to it from the paths of least resistance. Which means in his case the upper left corner. Which means no air for the rest of the stuff to move heat.

2) In a positive pressure environment taking the side panel off will increase your temps on components that are not near the outtake fans because now they are not getting air blowing across to remove heat faster and then having heat built up instead.

[werty316]

2) In a positive pressure environment taking the side panel off will increase your temps on components.
Do I have to repeat myself? Unless you have components that are passively cooled, taking the side panel off won't hurt regardless if you have a negative or positive air flow setup.

Negative air flow just sucks warm air out without sucking in any air and positive pressure only sucks in air while leaving warm air in its place. I prefer having an balance amount of intake and exhaust air flow rather than either negative or positive air flow

[Sadasius]

In his case it won't hurt at all. In fact like you said would actually help. But that is not the best cure for his woes. It is a good temporary solution, not a permanent one. He has to get something better then that whining 90mm side fan. Thats why his case sounds like a jet engine. I bet that thing is spinning at about 3200rpm or more.

[werty316]

In his case it won't hurt at all. In fact like you said would actually help. But that is not the best cure for his woes. It is a good temporary solution, not a permanent one.
Which is exactly my point. My recommendation may be temporary but it works.

[Sadasius]

It's all about the laws of thermal dynamics. You have to have your heat pump going. In a water cooled setup the water has to have good flow. The better the flow the better the system can move the heat to the exchangers at a better pace. With an air setup it is the same way. You have to move the air. The better you move it the better it can get rid of the heat buildup. This means you will have to move more air in then you are moving out and at a good pace. Why? Because it is harder to move air into a computer case then it is removing the air from it.

[werty316]

As I've said, airflow(possitive) won't matter really if the intake fans are blowing warm air into a case regardless if you are using high or low CFM fans; the same rule applies to watercooling(a pump circulated warm coolant). Having warm air blown is better than no air but it still won't help.

Anyways...., back on topic; other than watercooling, your temps probably won't go down regardless how your airflow is setup since the temperature in your area is ~80°F. Its either that or get an air conditioning unit.

[Sadasius]

So on a hot day you won't benefit from sitting in front of a fan??? It's moving the same hot air!!! :devildance:

[bobletman]

Both of you are right and wrong, but for me when I take of my side panel all my temps drop.

[Munga]

Holy moly this got big fast. Thanks Werty for correcting my on my fan size - I thought those small ones were 90mm...damn.

Anyway this is an interesting debate as I have always been told it is better to have more going out than in - cause the negative pressure will always suck in enough air versus positive pressure could cause a stalemate and make your airflow stagnent.

Well, thank God it has cooled down...infact it snowed this morning :lol:

I have done some tests and tweaking anyway and this is what I found. Even though those pics did not show it, I had that OCZ Ram cooling fan mounted over the RAM and that was blowing air down and onto my video card. I removed the fan and my temps decreased about 2-5 C. However after playing COD4 for an hour last night, it shut down again with a physical memory error on the BDS before it reboot. So I removed the 2 new sticks of RAM and played another hr and then loaded about 15 pics in PS CS3 without any more probs and the GPU temps stayed at 45-50C. My bro-n-law thinks my timings on my RAM are too tight and need to be backed off a bit so I will look at that as well. Right now I have it at 2-3-3-6-2T but he thinks 2.5-3-3-6-2T.

edit: My RAM sticks are 2 pair of Corsair Twinx2048-3200c2 with stock timings of 2-3-3-6
Voltage 2.75V.

[bobletman]

Holy moly this got big fast.

Thats what she said.

[Munga]

I have also decided that heat is problem anyway so......

Since I don't have time to do the folding contest, nor the money for a new case like that beautiful Tempest, I beleive I will embark on a case mod - my very first (yea me!). I have the tools at work to cut that platic side and steel top and I have 2 120mm fans left over from a previous build. So wish me luck - so I will put a 120 on the side, put a higher cfm fan on the back and cut a 120 hole for the top - replacing the 90 there and the side.

[trueg50]

Time to break out the dremel!

Alright, see all those 90mm fans? Cut them out for 120mm fans. Also, make sure you cut out the fan grills; on many cases they make them excessively large, or too decorative, and they reduce airflow dramatically.

Ohh and be careful cutting stuff, make sure your wearing safety goggles, as the plastic will melt and I have had a friend get smacked square in the center of the safety goggle by a large (double the size of a BB) glob of molten plastic.

Next up, or rather first probably as you an do this right now, read this guide (http://www.guru3d.com/article/rivatuner-20-fan-speed--overclock-guide/) and manually set your GPU's fan speed. It can take up to 80 degree's for sustained periods, and will only throttle at 130 degree's.

About the door removal, it will effect temps only if you have very heft airflow, otherwise it might help it a little, seeing as how that side 90mm fan is just blowing flat on the cooler, and not much of anything important.

Lastly, well.. its summer and that is not an overclockers time of year. It is the time when everyone reduces their clocks a tinge, you probably won't do this, but many do. I for one am watercooled, however it is freaking how with a 250 watt heater in the summer time, so I leave it off when I am not using it, and don't fold or game much when it is 90 degree's here.

Case Alignment: Ohh and one more thing, consider moving the computer so that the side the motherboard is mounted on is flat against the wall. Right now the exhaust of that 8800GTS is blowing into the wall, and not only is some lingering, but some might get sucked back in through the window. Probably wouldn't have that much of an effect, I just like having mine against the wall so I can kick back and rest my feet on top of it.

Fans: If you are looking for quiet fans, look for Sythes Slipstream (http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=49&sort=20a&main_page=index&filter_id=73)fans, they come in 500, 800, 1,200 , 1,600, and 1,900 RPM varieties. I have the 1,600 RPM models and they are audible, but the 1,200 and below will probably be fairly silent. Though my opinion may be off as I currently have a few 103 CFM Panaflow's. Another option would be to get 120x38 mm (normal 120mm fans are 120x25mm) fans and undervolting them.

[Munga]

Phase 1 complete. Side intake fan has been replaced with 120mm fan. I bought a couple of sythe 120 mm fans. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185060


Moved the original rear exhaust fan and made it the side intake. Cut the side plastic window accoding to this guys guide: http://www.casemodgod.com/

Replaced rear exhaust with 120mm 110CFM Sythe (believe it or not, this thing is pretty quiet)

Next phase: replace original top 80mm exhaust fan with 120mm sythe. Now I gotta cut some steel:lol:

Oh and last but not least.....will be replacing current CPU fan with this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118019