House Energy Efficiency

[PP Mguire]

So I'm sure some of you might live in a mobile home (as in double wide/single side) so I have a few questions for YOU.

Bit of background on this place. It is 5 bedroom, 3 bath, and I'd say roughly over 2200sqft. Just grazing the max size of a double wide IMO. The place is a little over 10 years old and hasn't been taken care of that great. I'm sure yall remember the problems I had over the winter with all the duct tape specials and I'm still fixing those and other things that where never "fixed". The 4ton AC unit is an 08 Gibson and I just had to replace the fan motor (the outdoor compressor/condenser) to give you an idea of how much these people really didn't care about their stuff.

Anyways I'm having a problem keeping this place cool. The major obvious fact I know that is a problem is on the opposite side of the blower, opposite end of the house (roughly last bedroom, living room area) there is a big hole in the metal ducting. You read that right, METAL ducting due to a freakin dog. Air flow still isn't that bad and the air coming out of the remaining vents is actually cold.

1/8th of the house is blocked off and sealed because it is the master bedroom and bathroom. So basically one end of the house is not accessed so the only door leading to it is duct taped and toweled off to prevent hot air from coming in. The windows are absolutely crap. Single pane, plastic latch, the works. The cheapest stuff you can buy from Lowes it seems.

Here is my idea. The windows we don't plan on using (or will be replaced later, as in 2 will turn into a nice sliding glass door later) and the 2 windows with AC units in them will have solar screen put on the outside, tin foil on the window on the inside, fiberglass insulation following tin foil, then drywall covering the whole works. So from outside to inside it's solar screen, window, tin foil, insulation, drywall, caulking filling in cracks. I hope to use this cheap but hopefully effective setup to not only block sunlight (more so heat from the sun) but also to prevent air from coming inside. The windows are crap, so air does seep in....alot. The only 3 windows I plan on leaving alone are the 2 in the main living room, and the one in the kitchen. The kitchen one is for small daylight entry (to see while pouring drinks without turning on a light) and the living room 2 windows for the Christmas tree in the winter. The AC unit windows will be a bit more of a pain but I think it's doable with a bit of help. Anybody have any ideas or suggestions against this, please let me know. The living room windows have tin foil to block sunlight anyways, but that is easily tore down for Christmas and cheaply replaced for the summer...as is solar screen.

The doors in this place are absolute junk. When I close my front door between 2pm and 9pm I can see sunlight from the western sun. The same can be said for my back door in the morning. It's not that bad, but I know bad seals cause air leaks which means higher electric bill. I don't really care about the back door, so I will probably just seal it off because until the owner cleans up the back porch we wont be going out that way anyways. I just need to figure out an easy and cheap way of fixing my front door sealage problem.

I will also be going around the house trying to fill cracks and gaps with Great Stuff like around pipes and stuff. It works exceptionally well as I've found out over the winter and this brief summer.

Any ideas or words of wisdom that isn't wallet heavy I'm open ears. I went and priced the materials I will need for the windows and I can do this with what I have now (lost my job, remember this). I have a bag of insulation already and it will probably stretch me 3 windows. The rest will have to get insulated at a later date. Before you ask, no we don't want or need our windows to be opened for anything really. Not a big fan of daylight at all and no daylight comes through the windows now as it is. I just see them as a huge energy sapper for the winter and summer.

[Joshua_Mahr]

First off I would seal all the windows take the interior drywall or hardboard or whatever off. The use "Great Stuff" alll over it. It's that foam expanding sealant. Stop the air leaks that way your ac pulls in only cold air from the house and not warm air from the windows. Covering With tin foil is a good Idea. But to completely cover them could be a fire hazard. Don't know your layout so not sure.

I myself am having to put a return vent to the A/C in my place due to too much computer heat in one room.

[sifter]

Well one good thing is you have time (sorry about the job). If you are fairly handy as it appears you are, you may want to consider some of the following.

Like both you and Mahr mentioned, use the great stuff. Heat loss during winter/heat gain during summer is cause by doors/windows/external outlets. Newer houses it’s the external outlets. Obviously any daylight should be cover. If you have any external outlets cover those completely with great stuff. Once its hard, put the insulation back and the wall back on.

For the external doors, check the door seals. IF they look fine, you may be able to reset the door. Basically remove the door and then replace it. If you have never done this before either google for replacing external doors or stop by your local library to find a home improvement book. You may want to invite a friend over that has tools, as it will make the job easier. Parts wise: new caulking, a couple shims, and nails or long screws. Don't rush it.

As for the whole in the mental ducting, try duct tape. I always used a special tape for the ducts in a house, but once worked with someone who installed vents and they said duct tape works just as good.

[James86]

Like others have said great stuff works great. I would try to make sure the home is as airtight as possible. climb in the attic if ya have one and make sure the insulation is covering everything and if the home is on a raised foundation go under it and make sure the insulation is intact under there as well.

[Blacksmith1]

as for the windows, there is a polystyrene insulation that has a foil covering one side. when i rebuilt my slide in camper some years ago, I used this as the only insulation. the little bitty ac on the roof froze me out after that. use this stuff to cover the windows after you seal them, and you will have your insulation and be able to pull it down if you need the light, or to open the window for any reason. if this is one of those prefab houses that is basicly a trailer, then as you redo the walls, sticc that stuff in using a double layer, foil pointing in and out. cover that with a plastic sheet (visqueen SP? they call it here)to make a mosture barrier and then your drywall/ paneling/whatever. and you'll be living in an igloo cooler.
advice from my a/c mech roomate. go over all your ducts to make sure they aren't leaking your cold out to place you don't want it. wrap the outside metal duct with an insulation made for that purpose (so it handles the weather), make sure the inside coil is clean, and the filters are cleaned/replaced regularly.

[PP Mguire]

I have great stuff on my windows already actually. I did that over the winter to make sure most of the windows aren't letting cold air in (more air was coming in due to HIGH winds than heat going out). That foil/insulation stuff you are talking about sounds like a better idea than my fiberglass insulation and tin foil idea. What is worse is I was showing MM this stuff a week ago and forgot about it lol.

Went under the house yesterday and I in fact have 2 small holes that I can see. One is under the metal ducting that goes straight to the vents and the insulation/covering that covers the whole bottom of the house is all tore up in that area. I have no idea how to fix that cause it looks like a large black tarp with insulation on the inside. The other hole is a small gap in the plastic/insulated ducting that connects the 2 sides of the house on the end of the house that is sealed. I'm guessing it's to make sure proper air flow goes all around the house and not just blowing hard on one end and soft on the other. My parents old double wide had this problem and I suspect they never checked the actual metal ducting for holes. Problem is, I couldn't do anything due to a rattle snake being in my way under the house and I was way to tired to even attempt to move him. I went ahead and forked the cash for actual HVAC tape to cover these holes as I want to get the job done properly. Eventually I will take a steal plate and screw it on then use Great Stuff to seal it. I also noticed more piping that I will need to insulate before the winter hits *facepalm*. This house is a wreck =/

Honestly, I think the main problem I'm having is sunlight and heat through the windows. I have really good air flow through 90% of the vents in my house but the one end just will not cool off.

Oh I should clarify a bit since it seems I wasn't understood. What I wanted to do was the foil and insulation inside the window cavity then cover it up with drywall to make it look on the inside as like I have no window to seal it up. Instead, I will just use this foil/insulation stuff to cover the window up, then drywall it on the inside to make a seal.

[Blacksmith1]

that sounds like you may need to up the circulation so that the heat moves to the intake of the system. think of it like a giant comp case with all the airflow going out at the mid height level. put a fan above that and you move the heat, right? as for that black stuff under the place. clean an area around the hole, square shaped, stuff the hole full of fiberglass, then find a sutible material that you can make a patch out of. cut it to fit the area you cleaned, and mount it using contact cement. (follow the instuctions on the can) this is a common problem usually caused by dogs, raccoons, or other pests. this is also one of the major "heat leaks" that never get fixed cause most people don't even look under there. the beauty of that place is that it was built so cheaply it should be easy to fix (not the same as cheap to fix)

[MtDew]

What type of roof do you have? If it is shingle, then there is not much you can do. If it is the normal mobile home metal roof, then there is insultating roof paint you can put on. I helped my wife's cousin put this on her roof, had it cut her cooling bill by about $50 a month. Also, if you have underpinning, then I would put 1" insulating foam sheets behind the underpinning. If you don't have underpinning up, then ask the land lord to put some up.

One thing that I have done, but will take some time (years) to help, is to plant shade trees on the southwest side of my house. I have 2 trees that I planted 6 years ago that are just this year starting to help shade the west side of my house from the late afternoon sun.

[Pablo 54]

PP,

Be careful going under the house. When I was stationed at Ft. Sill in Lawton, OK you never went under any raised building unless you were certain it was clear of Black Widows, snakes and scorpions (little clearish ones).

Along with what has already been said, I second MtDew's comment about the roof. It will probably give you the quickest monetary return.

Are you guys in drought conditions right now?

[Momentomoir]

PP,

Be careful going under the house. When I was stationed at Ft. Sill in Lawton, OK you never went under any raised building unless you were certain it was clear of Black Widows, snakes and scorpions (little clearish ones).

Along with what has already been said, I second MtDew's comment about the roof. It will probably give you the quickest monetary return.

Are you guys in drought conditions right now?

funny thing you say that lol
so yesterday he goes under the house and finds a rattle snake..hopefully the snake left

[swmeek]

funny thing you say that lol
so yesterday he goes under the house and finds a rattle snake..hopefully the snake left

That would end my under-house crawling lickety split!

[Blacksmith1]

I heard you can catch them with a little milk, probably BS tho'

[PP Mguire]

that sounds like you may need to up the circulation so that the heat moves to the intake of the system. think of it like a giant comp case with all the airflow going out at the mid height level. put a fan above that and you move the heat, right? as for that black stuff under the place. clean an area around the hole, square shaped, stuff the hole full of fiberglass, then find a sutible material that you can make a patch out of. cut it to fit the area you cleaned, and mount it using contact cement. (follow the instuctions on the can) this is a common problem usually caused by dogs, raccoons, or other pests. this is also one of the major "heat leaks" that never get fixed cause most people don't even look under there. the beauty of that place is that it was built so cheaply it should be easy to fix (not the same as cheap to fix)Sounds like a plan. I was just gonna staple something to the outer area of the black stuff and straight into the boards. There is nothing in that area except that metal ducting so wont hurt anything. Deff gonna replace the fiber glass. Also gonna go around and fill all the holes between pipes and the flooring like in the bathroom area. ALot of cold air comes in through the drywall cracks in the winter. Nobody notices because the cold is behind the walls.


What type of roof do you have? If it is shingle, then there is not much you can do. If it is the normal mobile home metal roof, then there is insultating roof paint you can put on. I helped my wife's cousin put this on her roof, had it cut her cooling bill by about $50 a month. Also, if you have underpinning, then I would put 1" insulating foam sheets behind the underpinning. If you don't have underpinning up, then ask the land lord to put some up.

One thing that I have done, but will take some time (years) to help, is to plant shade trees on the southwest side of my house. I have 2 trees that I planted 6 years ago that are just this year starting to help shade the west side of my house from the late afternoon sun.I know about this, but unfortunately it is a shingle roof.


PP,

Be careful going under the house. When I was stationed at Ft. Sill in Lawton, OK you never went under any raised building unless you were certain it was clear of Black Widows, snakes and scorpions (little clearish ones).

Along with what has already been said, I second MtDew's comment about the roof. It will probably give you the quickest monetary return.

Are you guys in drought conditions right now?Lol like she already said found a snake under there. Lucky for me haven't found any spiders yet and I hope I don't because I really need to get this stuff fixed.


That would end my under-house crawling lickety split!Nah not me.


I heard you can catch them with a little milk, probably BS tho'Never heard of that, but don't wanna get close enough to find out.

Well got one insulated/drywalled piece up covering a hot window. Seems to have helped a bit.

[Blacksmith1]

one down 937 to go...

[Saryn]

Lived in a modular for 5 years and just moved back into one. They are a pain in the ass to keep up with. Usually you can buy better windows fairly cheap.

Landscaping can help a lot with blocking the elements. Trees, bushes. Provide shade, insulation, wind break.

[PP Mguire]

one down 937 to go...2 down, 5 to go =) Luckily I can get 2 small windows with 1 piece of drywall. I'm not pro with cutting the drywall so basically I just leave the blind up and have it down over the drywall to simulate a window. Nobody knows the difference until I show them lol.


Lived in a modular for 5 years and just moved back into one. They are a pain in the ass to keep up with. Usually you can buy better windows fairly cheap.

Landscaping can help a lot with blocking the elements. Trees, bushes. Provide shade, insulation, wind break.Fairly cheap to me is like 10 bucks a window. We are dirt poor right now because our money is basically going to trying to fix my car up for highway and building this house up so I don't have a ridiculous bill to pay at the end of every extreme hot or cold month. I think the worst so far was a 400+ bill we received because I was pushing a ton of hot air straight outside.

[Blacksmith1]

winters are easy, just steal Mo's body heat. :mrgreen:

[PP Mguire]

The opposite happens. She is usually always the cold one.

[Joshua_Mahr]

Just fold in the winter. Move your computer to the living room. I can't wait till winter. I love to turn off the Air and let the comps get cooking!

[James86]

let's get cooking
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/1722/tempsr.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/228/tempsr.jpg/)

[James86]

Thats just folding on a 4650 that has a little 40mm fan on it and the stock AMD heatsink on a single core Semperon

[Blacksmith1]

that's not bad, those temps could be alot higher

[PP Mguire]

Just fold in the winter. Move your computer to the living room. I can't wait till winter. I love to turn off the Air and let the comps get cooking!I do. It's the only time I fold actually.

[Joshua_Mahr]

I have 10 GPu's going in my room all over 70C and 4 Cpu's all around 69C.. A/c is on 70F and just dosen't quite cut it. Thats just in my room. Kids all have computers too. My poor A/C..

[PP Mguire]

I have 10 GPu's going in my room all over 70C and 4 Cpu's all around 69C.. A/c is on 70F and just dosen't quite cut it. Thats just in my room. Kids all have computers too. My poor A/C..

Your poor electric bill. Wish I made your kinda cash to afford such a thing. I wouldn't have to bust my ass to try and make it stay cool in here AND keep the electric down >=[

[Blacksmith1]

josh's place stays just at the edge of comfy based on when(the one time) I was there. the ac system is just keeping up with him. i belive if he adds anything else it will start fighting a losing battle.

[PP Mguire]

Well with 105+ temps outside and my cardboard box for a house my 4ton unit is fighting a losing battle. So disappointing actually. Was cheap to fix the unit but gonna pay for it later :|

[Blacksmith1]

is this a rental or are you buying it?

[Joshua_Mahr]

Just thought I might share I found this coating for roof since we are going to repaint the roof of my building.

http://www.lexiscoatings.com/energyguard/acrylic-elastomeric/

[James86]

that stuff looks cool and because it's white it will reflect the heat

[PP Mguire]

is this a rental or are you buying it?We are buying in a rent to own contract. Waiting to sign them papers then I will be getting down and dirty with this house.


Just thought I might share I found this coating for roof since we are going to repaint the roof of my building.

http://www.lexiscoatings.com/energyguard/acrylic-elastomeric/Somebody already mentioned this in the thread. Unfortunately I have a shingle roof.

[Blacksmith1]

most elastomeric polymer coatings can be used on a shingle roof, it's just a royal pain when you decide to finaly re-roof it. even if you apply a thin coat to it it will help seal it and give you the reflective benifit.
when you get ready to go for it. I have a few ideas that will increase both the R factor and the strength of the dwelling.

[Blacksmith1]

in the mean time.
http://financiallyfit.yahoo.com/finance/article-113017-10111-2-how-to-reduce-your-cooling-costs?ywaad=ad0035
get a tarp....

[James86]

I need to add more insulation in my attic my AC can barley keep it at 76

and Black try adding img tags to your sig

[Joshua_Mahr]

You img status has been revoked.:na:

[Blacksmith1]

exactly, the tags are still there. the part at the bottom that says what you are and are not allowed to post now says no at the bb img part. one of our other members has this problem also but his started that way.

[James86]

this is how I have mine just without the +
[CENTER][SIZE=7][URL="http://folding.extremeoverclocking.com/user_summary.php?u=546798"][IMG]http://folding.extremeoverclocking.com/sigs/sigimage.php?u=546798&c1=FFFFFF&c2=000000&c3=000000&c4=0000CC&c5=FFFFFF[/+IMG][/+URL][/+SIZE][/+CENTER]

[Blacksmith1]

dude I had it working, have taught a bunch of people how to do it and even put instructions oin the Folding FAQ. some how the permissions in my profile were changed so that I'm no longer allowed to have IMG tags working in my sig.
in other words.... somebody BROKE my sig....l

[Cody_Irwin]

Haha, hey james imma report you for harassment from ur sig =P j/p hah, its still making me laugh and i just wokeup...

[James86]

maybe there is a limit on the sig size maybe try a smaller size like 5 or 6

[PP Mguire]

most elastomeric polymer coatings can be used on a shingle roof, it's just a royal pain when you decide to finaly re-roof it. even if you apply a thin coat to it it will help seal it and give you the reflective benifit.
when you get ready to go for it. I have a few ideas that will increase both the R factor and the strength of the dwelling.Sweet tits I didn't know you could put that stuff on manufactured shingle roofing. That should help out GREAT by next year.


in the mean time.
http://financiallyfit.yahoo.com/finance/article-113017-10111-2-how-to-reduce-your-cooling-costs?ywaad=ad0035
get a tarp....Actually, a tarp has the opposite blanketing effect. I would know, because it did that to my parents house AND our tent we stayed in for 3 months. The idea is to have a reflective one to reflect the sun back right? Well the heat gets trapped under the tarp and it gets transferred into the house as it can't escape. Sucks cause we spent like 40 bucks on a huge tarp for our tent and it did the opposite of what it was intended for.


I need to add more insulation in my attic my AC can barley keep it at 76

and Black try adding img tags to your sigI wish I had an attic so I can do just that. It would probably reduce most of the problems I'm having with heat from the sun. The rest is under the house.

[James86]

I wish I had a basement

[PP Mguire]

Me too! Damn I'd have all my PC and music stuff down there.

[James86]

in a man cave it would be sweet

[Blacksmith1]

I meant put a tarp up to shade your A/C unit. having it in the shade will mean it doesn't work as hard to overcome the absorbed solar radiation. if you read the article it specificly mentions getting shade on the unit.
and you can always hose it down to help it out. (seriously, this works)

[PP Mguire]

Ohhh. Well in it's placement it basically is in the shade 3/4 of the day anyways.

[swmeek]

I've got a place in my roof where two roofs come together and use that aluminumized roof coating on it to seal it.
It works great and I like it better than that elastomorphic stuff you were talking about as it's a bit thicker.

[Blacksmith1]

depends on the brand. Snow Coat is pretty darn thick. but it's the top brand in the white coatings and priced accordingly. that silver coat stuff works just as well for seal, reflection? that one I've heard argued over and over with no hard evidence to back it up. so i gotta figure it's close to the same on both. I know most roofing companies down here use the silver stuff on Flat roofs. most comercial buildings down here have it on them. APTs, stores, gas stations, pretty much anything with a flat roof here. lots of sun and rain.... ATM your decision should be made on price. whichever is cheaper wins. there isn't enough difference to warrent going with the higher price when your on a budget.
read the packaging and instrutions to see if they say no pitched/angled roofs BEFORE you buy them.

[James86]

suposed to hit 101F today I might have to get some shade for my A/C unit or this http://www.coolnsave.com/

[PP Mguire]

depends on the brand. Snow Coat is pretty darn thick. but it's the top brand in the white coatings and priced accordingly. that silver coat stuff works just as well for seal, reflection? that one I've heard argued over and over with no hard evidence to back it up. so i gotta figure it's close to the same on both. I know most roofing companies down here use the silver stuff on Flat roofs. most comercial buildings down here have it on them. APTs, stores, gas stations, pretty much anything with a flat roof here. lots of sun and rain.... ATM your decision should be made on price. whichever is cheaper wins. there isn't enough difference to warrent going with the higher price when your on a budget.
read the packaging and instrutions to see if they say no pitched/angled roofs BEFORE you buy them.

For me, I think I'm gonna work on the inside first then work on the outside. Our current bedroom, soon to be music room, has alot of holes in the drywall and there is absolutely NO insulation at all. Kind of depressing but I suppose that's how it works. Later on in life my music room and PC room will have its own 1 ton central unit since I plan to fold and will want a controlled environment for my music studio. When we buy the house the first room that will get worked on is the master bedroom / bathroom. The windows will get replaced first, then the drywall is coming down. Insulation will go up, 1/2" drywall will replace the millimeter thick **** up now, and then I will get this second hot water heater running. We also have to replace the carpet, padding, probably flooring, and some other things in there too. So naturally, all of this wont happen for a while.

[James86]

wow that's a lot of work you have to do

[Blacksmith1]

if you can afford it get 5/8 firerock, more insulation and fire rated on top of it. and pack the walls with the the styro insulation while you have them down.
as for the outside, if this isn't a C/B or brick structure then you can use a furring stick framework on the outside (across the existing frame not with it) pack an extra layer of insulation in there and cover it with Stom Brace (extra insulation and strength layer) then capp it with Tx-11(1 sp?) the plywood that looks kinda like paneling/tongue in grove plank, or use real TiG plank for maximum strength. this should (with the inside and out) bring your total insulation level to Above R-19 easily. maybe even to acrtic levels. (as good for heat as cold)

[PP Mguire]

That'll cost some cash. Not sure I'm willing to put THAT much into this place. Things I want to do will be exceptionally simple and relatively cheap. 1/2" is already thicker than what is here and I can do a whole wall for like 20 bucks. With insulation it will help GREATLY in keeping this house warm and cool. The stuff that is inside this house now is comparable to wallpapered cardboard. Then of course add on the no insulation at all part. I never realized how cheaply made mobile homes where until I moved into this one. IMO the price they ask if highway robbery.

[Blacksmith1]

Depends on who makes them, most companies at least put a token layer of fiberglass in. not much but better than nothing. and doing the foam layer will be cheap enough when you consider how much it will save you. take pics and keep recipts so that if you sell it you can justify the higher asking price. "all this is already done"

[PP Mguire]

This is supposed to be a Clayton which is classed "second best" brand. My parents house was a Fleetwood which is supposed to be the "best" and it was no better. These places are just over priced period considering it probably didn't even cost them 30g to build it yet my parents place cost 60g. This place here? Prolly cost around 80 new. Of course, I'm going by opinions based around 10 years ago when these homes where bought. I think both homes where built around 98. Unfortunately my parents took better care of their home than this one so it needs work =/

[Blacksmith1]

the trick is to upgrade them every time they need a repair. eventually you have something better than what it was new. and yes they are very over priced compared to what they cost to manufacture. most of them cost less to build than a car and sell for far more.

[PP Mguire]

Story of America.

[PP Mguire]

So I was wondering just 20 minutes ago if this would make any difference at all. The part of the house giving me troubles is the part of the house that is furthest away from the AC. Later on I wonder if it would make a difference to make the return air of the house on that end while the unit is still on the other side. If need be I can make a model of our layout to give as an example of what I mean.

[James86]

that would prolly help out because the farthest isn't getting any air movement besides the vents coming into that room. if you make that room have a return it will suck warm air from that room and make the air flow better throughout the home

[Blacksmith1]

the best bet its to put the return dead center. along with the air handler if possible. My roomate is an A/C tech, he says it probably wont help. try closing some of the other vents some, to get the air down to that end.

[Joshua_Mahr]

James that cool it link you posted. You know anone who has tried that. I have 24 A/c units here that could save me some cash.

[Blacksmith1]

it's just spraying water on the unit. this will help as it removes the heat coming off the unit faster using evaporation and direct cooling of the condenser unit. just spray a hose at one and test it out. for a single unit you could build one your self from parts at Home depot or lowes. adding a shade cover will also help as you then won't be fighting solar radiation.

[James86]

James that cool it link you posted. You know anone who has tried that. I have 24 A/c units here that could save me some cash.
I've only seen one home with it on their AC. It had a filter on it to soften the water I guess and a toilet like valve on it so when the fan turned on it would blow the arm and thus turn on the water.
and why do you have 24 AC's???? 1 for each folding rig?
and like Black said you could build one with misters from home depot or lowes

[Blacksmith1]

he lives in a server farm. ;)

[Joshua_Mahr]

Need 24 a/c's to keep cool. I live in Florida remember.