Need advice on an upgrade

[Kenobi]

First things first: hello again! I'm sure that no one remembers me, but I used to show up here every now and then. My life has taken a bit of a turn, which included changing city and getting married, thus my being away for so long. Anyway...I'm back, decided to stay, and I hope I'll enjoy it :)

Now, let's get back on topic, shall we?

My motherboard (with an old VIA266 chipset) is dying. Since my other specs include a Pentium 2.4 Ghz (Socket 478) and a Geforce 4 Ti 4200 128 Megs (AGP, naturally), this spells bad news: massive upgrade. I'll need a new CPU, video card and motherboard.

The thing is, I want to avoid to spend too much money on this upgrade. I'm aiming at 400 euros (more or less the same thing in dollars), and that's already stretching it.

I thought of going the AMD way, but it kind of scares me. Whenever I see reports of problems with games, most of the cases it has something to do with a AMD CPU. Anyway, I've used Intel ever since I got my first rig, 11 years ago, so I'm sticking with Intel.

ATI isn't an option, either. I'll go with Nvidia, I just can't make up my mind as to which model I'll choose.

This is where I need help: which Intel CPU? Which Nvidia card? Which motherboard?

Celeron is probably a bad idea, right? I mean, they were never good for gaming...right?

Is a Geforce 6600GT 256 Megs still good enough? Cause the Geforce 6800GS, and even the XT, will probably take a while to get here, and will most likely than not be priced way higher than they should be.

This is meant to be a gaming machine, but not a monster one, obviously. Just something that'll play upcoming games decently at 1024x768 with maybe some FSAA. If it can run F.E.A.R., Battle for Middle-Earth 2, Star Wars Empire at War, etc. good enough then that's fine for me.

[Scott Sherman]

$400.00. Humm, not sure what I can come up with for that. Let me do some looking.

[BlackStar]

Your CPU at 2.4 Ghz isn't horrible. Could you stand a $40 to $50 motherboard and just upgrade your video? A 6600GT AGP 128 MB goes for $150.

Additional memory would be a plus and still keep you in budget. You'd be able to play the current games, just not with all the eye candy turned on.

I would think this system would last another couple of years.

Just trying to be helpful.

[Kenobi]

That's not a bad idea at all, Blackstar.

I considering getting a Asrock P4Dual-880Pro motherboard, which is compatible with my CPU and allows PCI-Express. There's a store near my workplace which sells a XFX Geforce 6600GT 256 Megs DDR3 for about 200 euros. Considering I live in Portugal and hardware is always overpriced, that's almost a bargain. That means that if I choose to get this particular motherboard and this particular video card, it'd cost me about 260 euros.

Would I be able to play F.E.A.R., Quake 4, and Star Wars Empire at War decently with this rig? And when I mean "decently", I mean 1024x768, without having to turn details down. Btw, FSAA doesn't really mean that much to me.

[BlackStar]

I don't see why not, but I'd compair the min requirements of all those games to what your system would be. You didn't specify your RAM, but 1 GB would be good. 512 MB should work, though.

Again, they should be quite playable, even at 1024x768, with the 6600GT. Again, you won't be able to max out the settings, but those games should be enjoyable.

[BlackStar]

After a little more thought, you could probably squeeze in a slightly better video card, but, considering we're talking AGP, you might not want to spend too much.

Anyway, I'd like to know what you eventually decide.

[werty316]

Too bad you decided on Intel but no biggie. if you ever choose AMD and you should as you get more bang for you buck especially if you overclock. I would go with a A64 3000+ or 3200+ with NF4 board like Asus A8N or Abit AN8 or ECS KN1 Extreme. for a video card I would go for the 6600GT as mentioned but stay away from the 6800XT its crap. For $400 euros which is around $475USD You really can't get much though. Heres an example of what I found for a total of $406USD

ASUS A8N-E Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 Ultra ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail - $110
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131530

$166 - AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Venice 1GHz FSB 512KB L2 Cache Socket 939 Processor - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103535

$130 - XFX PVT43GNDF3 Geforce 6600GT 128MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814150098

$209 - eVGA 256-P2-N386 Geforce 6800GS 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130258


Keep in mind I am more of an AMD user but this is what I chose. Not sure if the board is good as I am not sure what the best chipset is for Intel. Though with newer Intel if not all of them now use DDR2 so that is one reason to save even more $ and go AMD.

$186 - Intel Pentium 4 531 Prescott 800MHz FSB 1MB L2 Cache LGA 775 EM64T Processor - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819116230

$186 - ASUS P5PL2 Socket T (LGA 775) Intel 945P ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819116230

You are gonna have to basically look to see what you can find in your area or an online UK dealer.

[BlackStar]

Well, Kenobi, you've got a couple of suggestions: Cheap and cheezy to get you by for a year or two, or spend your full budget of 400 euro and make it last as long as necessary.

werty316 has some good options.

Let us know.

[Kenobi]

I'm in a dead end, so to speak.

I know I have to upgrade, but I don't want to spend too much. Going the "cheap" way, I'd just get a motherboard with the P4 Dual 880 Pro, which is compatible with both Socket 478 CPU's and PCI-Express, and a XFX Geforce 6600GT 256 MB DDR3. THis would cost me around 260 euros. Not bad!
However, I'd have to ditch the motherboard when I upgrade the CPU (which would be sometime around March or April). Besides, my current CPU (a Pentium 4 2.4 Ghz) would bottleneck the system. Cheap, but not the best choice.

I'm considering this combo:
Pentium 4 630 (3 Ghz, 2 MB Cache, Socket LGA 775) (180 euros)
XFX Geforce 6600GT 256 MB DDR3 (200 euros)
Asrock 775D880PRO (60 euros)

Yeah, my budget bit the bullet, so to speak. 440 euros. Still, I'd get a rig that'd last me 2 years, maybe 2 and a half without upgrading.
What do you think?

Thanks for the tips, everyone.

P.S. I have 1 Gig RAM. So that's not a problem - for the moment, at least.
I am aware that AMD is currently in the lead as far as gaming performance goes. Still, I am concerned that compatibility (especially retrocompatibility with some older games) might be a issue. Whenever I see something complaining about freezes, crashes, etc., 9 out of 10 that person as a AMD CPU. Any thoughts on this?

[BlackStar]

The only issues I've had going from an older system (that happened to be Intel) to my new AMD was when I tried to copy all my player info. For instance, last night in installed Descent 3 (I know, I know...) and tried to run a saved game. I was getting all sorts of funny problems. But if I start a new game, it works fine.

That's been the case with other games as well. I don't know if it's an issue with the processor or Windows (ME v XP).

Scorched Earth, on the other hand, is almost unplayable on a faster computer. Or maybe you still play BEAST? :D

I've heard of that board. Nothing but praise for it. With AGP or PCIe, DDR or DDR2, you should be set for a while!

Regarding budgets: Amazing how quickly they grow!

[werty316]

Windows ME sucks and people who buy it are retards. basically you are paying Micro$oft for an OS taht is crap. Windows ME was one big mistake on Micr$ofts part. I am not a big fan of those boards with both PCI-E and AGP, DDR and DDR2. I think you should still go AMD. You would save my than going Intel. Plus you could use a decent board and not ones with both connections of DDR1 &2 and AGP & PCI-E. Most of those if not all of those boards use crappy chipsets like ULI or SIS and since you want o do some gaing I would suggest at least a VIA for AMD and as for Intel maybe an Intel fanboy in here can tell you about chipsets. I was gonna suggest a 945 chipset but those require DDR2.

[BlackStar]

Windows ME was just '98 with some extra stuff. I never had a problem with it, but I don't use it anymore.

Again, I've heard good things about these boards.

[werty316]

They are good for upgradability but by 2006 AMD will use DDR2 and PCI-E is the norm so I find geting one of these not worth it. Plus DDR3 is around the corner too which is good considering DDR2 didn't improve much performance wise over DDR1

[BlackStar]

Kenobi is only talking 2 years for this upgrade. Who knows what will be the norm by then. BTX style motherboard were supposed to be here last year and they're hardly trickling into the market.

[werty316]

I guess and everyone has their preferences and not everyone likes the same products and configurations. I would still go AMD as they are cheap and good bang for the buck and perform better with games clock for clock.

[BlackStar]

True.

Kenobi, since the budget is blown anway, why not look at AMD? I really don't think you'll have issues, except maybe for you're old DOS games.

But, whichever way you go, you're sure to enjoy it.

[werty316]

I am not sure why he even thought about AMD being a problem with games. If at all its XP and not AMD CPUs. I hope you do the right thing and save $ my going with AMD.

[BlackStar]

AMD used to have issues years ago. But that was only with specific programs using Intel's MMX or something like that.

Old news dies hard.

[werty316]

He mention that though.

[BlackStar]

That's right. See, the story of AMD issues sticks around.

Also, one reason most of the problems Kenobi sees with AMD is that more AMD users are OC'ers and push their systems. Lots of Intel users do too, but I think a larger percentage of AMD owners do that. That would also increase the perception that AMD has problems.

[werty316]

AMD used to have issues years ago. But that was only with specific programs using Intel's MMX or something like that.

Old news dies hard.

HA I gotcha He didn't mention that HA. Not all AMD users OC. They just perform better with games and a better bang for the $.

[Kenobi]

I'm almost convinced to go the AMD way. If that is the case, I'll take the Athlon 64 3200+. Is it a good choice?

I've been looking at ATI cards, too. I've seen some benchmarks of the ATI X800 RX 256 MB and it doesn't look bad at all. The only problem I see with this card is the lack of Shader Model 3.0.

This decision hardly affects my budget; the Athlon CPU is a little cheaper than the Pentium 630 that I'd been looking at, and the ATI card is considerably cheaper than the Geforce 6600GT (46 euros!), but AMD compatible motherboards are much more expensive than Intel ones.

Opinions, anyone?

P.S. I really, really appreciate all the tips that you folks are giving me. Thanks!

[Victor]

I THINK AMD 64 3200 is a good choice., it gives you the option of upgrading in case you want it and genereally speaking amdt64 performs better than intel's counterpart.

As for teh gfx card, the x800 is a nice card. I personally might consider buying the 6800GS because of the more advanced feature it supports and the possibility of SLI in case you ever plan to do so.

[Kenobi]

I thought of the 6800GS too, Samsamha. But the thing is, it's considerably more expensive than the X800.

[werty316]

Good choice with going AMD if you do way to go. Make sure you get a S939 system though. This way like SANSAMHA said you can upgrade the CPU in the future. As for 6800GS and X800. I would go for the 6800GS. Its a little more expensive but is faster. You could save upto $50USD if you go with the X800.

Which AMD board are you looking at? One more thing do youplan on overclocking? If not this board will tide you over.

$95USD - ABIT AX8
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813127187

[Victor]

you should ask Shane in the forum ,I think he has a x800 that he is selling if you plan to get x800 card.

[werty316]

The X800 is a good performer though one of my brother's friends just bought one about a month or 2 ago and isn't satisfied with it. He says FEAR stutters alot but I have a 6800OC and it doesn't stutter at all in FEAR using the same settings as he used. Maybe its because I have it unlocked or maybe not but not really sure why he wants to get rid of his X800 so soon. My brother plans on buy it from him though next year.

[Kenobi]

That's a shame, really. F.E.A.R. is one of the games I intend to play on a proper rig.

Anyway, I've been thinking. If I want to have a decent computer, I can't spend less than 500 euros. So, I'll get a Pentium 3.2 Ghz (yep, I'm going Intel) and one of those AGP & PCI compatible motherboards now, and I'll get a Geforce 6800GS next year. What do you think?

[werty316]

Are you planning on buy everything at once or buying piece by piece? I guess you are sticking with your Geforce 4 Ti 4200 till then?

[Victor]

what kind of memory do you have right now? pc3200 ddr? If you do, I would suggest get amd system because it still uses DDR1, a higher end intel system uses ddr2, so if you plan to go for intel only, you may need to spend money on ddr2 as well.

Also, do you plan upgrade the gfx now or later? If you plan to upgrade gfx now, then I would say, forget about agp as it's dying, just go for pcie.

[werty316]

I think he might be going on the concept of Intel being faster since their CPUs are clocked higher. In some situations this isn't the case. I am still suggesting that AMD is the way to go if you plan on play games. All those stories about games having problems with AMD CPUs is not true. Don't believe it one bit.

[Kenobi]

I am fully aware that a higher clock frequency doesn't necessarily mean better performance. It's just that I've been using Intel ever since I have a computer. It's a case to say "if ain't broken, don't fix it". It's just a matter of personal preference, that's all.

As for the motherboard, I'm going with the Asrock 775Dual-880Pro. It supports DDR 1 as well as DDR 2, so no problems regarding memory.

It also supports both AGP and PCI-E, which means that I can get the CPU (Pentium 3.2 Ghz) and the mobo now, keep my GF 4 Ti 4200 for some more time, and get a new card a bit later. I'm thinking about getting the Geforce 6800GS, but that may change if Nvidia releases a mid-range card based on the 7xxx family.

Your thoughts?

[BlackStar]

I think that's a great choice for a slow yet steady upgrade. I've heard lots of good things about ASrock, even though the overclocking options aren't as good as other boards. For the price of about $60, it's a good board.

If the P 3.2 is about $210 and you're keeping your memory and video for now, then you're well within your original budget. Save the cash now and buy the new card in a couple of months.

I'd be curious how this new MB and processor change your gaming experience even with the older card.

[Kenobi]

The processor is about 189.90 euros and the MB costs 57.90. That gives a total of 247.80 euros which, if a currency calculator I've found is right, equals to about 293 dollars. It's not too expensive.

It's not so much because of gaming, but because my mobo has been acting weird. Really weird. And I fear that it might go out with a bang, both methaporically and literally - I already had a nasty experience with a bios going supernova on me, and since this is an old system anyway I might as well play it safe.
And since I have to upgrade whether I want it or not, I figured I might as well do it "the right way" and get me a system that'll last me for some time.

I doubt that I'll notice a big difference in gaming, as current and upcoming games seem to rely a lot more on video card than on the CPU. Besides, I'm not sure of how big of a jump there is between a Pentium 2.4 Ghz and a Pentium 3.2 Ghz. Granted, the Asrock MB is in a whole different galaxy than my current ECS P4VXASD2+ (which was never any good to begin with), but still...
I'll be happy if I can play F.E.A.R. at 640x480 at a steady framerate :)

[werty316]

640x480??? Seriously? You gotta at least wait to upgrade so you can enjoy all the nice eyecandy.

Well I guess you mind is set and it ain't bad either since you need to replace a dying board. Waiting for a vid card is smart too as new cards are soon to be release next year so everything that is out now will go down in price a bit hopefully. The 7600 is a good choice as long as it doesn't dig its self a grave. In other words it better not suck.

[nam-ng]

The processor is about 189.90 euros and the MB costs 57.90. That gives a total of 247.80 euros which, if a currency calculator I've found is right, equals to about 293 dollars. It's not too expensive.

It's not so much because of gaming, but because my mobo has been acting weird. Really weird. And I fear that it might go out with a bang, both methaporically and literally - I already had a nasty experience with a bios going supernova on me, and since this is an old system anyway I might as well play it safe.
And since I have to upgrade whether I want it or not, I figured I might as well do it "the right way" and get me a system that'll last me for some time.

If you wanted "the right way" that'll last for some time, then forget about AGP altogether.
I doubt that I'll notice a big difference in gaming, as current and upcoming games seem to rely a lot more on video card than on the CPU. Besides, I'm not sure of how big of a jump there is between a Pentium 2.4 Ghz and a Pentium 3.2 Ghz. Granted, the Asrock MB is in a whole different galaxy than my current ECS P4VXASD2+ (which was never any good to begin with), but still...
I'll be happy if I can play F.E.A.R. at 640x480 at a steady framerate :)
No real SM3 games out yet. The difference between older games and real SM3 versions is realistic physic modeling.

If you don't know it yet, PPUs are SM3-class GPU derivatives. All of them are Distributed Processing designs, I've yet ever seen a Symmetric Processing version.

You should get an SLI capable mobo as minimum for real SM3 games. One slot for Physic Processing the second for Graphics.

[werty316]

He wants to keep hi GF4 for now and thats why he is choosing a AGP and PCI-E with DDR1 and DDR2. I think the main point is that his board is dying and wants to replace it before it goes bye bye. Getting one of these dual boards is alright but I wouldn't buy one. Thats just my opinion on them. I don't think he can afford 2 7800GTs as his budget is $400euros and 2 7800GTs are gonna cost more than that and this excludes the CPU, the board, and DDR2 memory since he is going Intel.

[Kenobi]

Yep, a 7600-like card would be great. But the 6800GS would be a good buy too, I think. However, getting any video card below the 6800GS wouldn't be a very good move, as it will probably get outdated sooner than later.

If you wanted "the right way" that'll last for some time, then forget about AGP altogether.

The thing is, I will forget about AGP. I'm only keeping my old AGP video card for about 2, maximum 3 months: the time I need to get a new card.

Getting one of these dual boards is alright but I wouldn't buy one. Thats just my opinion on them.

Could you please give some reasons? Don't get me wrong, I'm just curious.

DDR2 memory since he is going Intel

I don't need to go DDR2. This particular board is compatible with DDR1, too. So there's no need to upgrade the memory for quite some time.

I really appreciate all the input you're giving me, people. Thanks!

[werty316]

Well basically is all about my preference. I will only build an AMD system. Its like when you buy a car and that some people have certain preferences. You know what I mean? I am saying whatever decision you make is mine. Everyone has certain taste.

[nam-ng]

The thing is, I will forget about AGP. I'm only keeping my old AGP video card for about 2, maximum 3 months: the time I need to get a new card.
This ~$80 worth of integrated-video mobo (http://www.pcstats.com/ArtVNL.cfm?articleid=1865&page=9) will out-perform your Ti4600, and it even has other extra video functions your old Ti4600 would never have. Use your old machine to serve other purposes.

BTW, add an AMD cpu then swap other hardware over is the cheapest upgrade... and you can wait to buy later a new PCI-e vid card + new RAM.

Here's a link (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;824125) for installing a new mobo without having to be re-installing everything.

I'll stop posting, getting off this thread now and you should post a lot more, you might very well win the vid card contest, it would do for you nicely. :D

[werty316]

Good idea I never thought about onboard video and the GF6150 intergrated video performs quite well. As for going with AMD sounds like he is staying with Intel.

[Neal_White_III]

Yeah, we enthusiasts often forget about integrated video, but there are times when it makes a lot of sense.

[Kenobi]

OK...you people have me pretty much convinced. Guess I will go AMD after all. The Athlon 64 3500+ seems like a good buy, no?

The video card will be a 6800GS.

As for the motherboard, I'm a bit lost. Is there any board that you recommend? It has to be compatible with both PCI-X and AGP.

Thanks!

[BlackStar]

I *was* going to recommend this board (http://www.asrockamerica.com/Products/939DSATA2.htm), but after looking at the PCI-e video compatability (http://www.asrock.com.tw/product/support_x300.htm), I'm not sure. They only list ATI. So although I've heard good things about the board, perhaps we'll pass on this one.

I'll keep looking.

[werty316]

OK...you people have me pretty much convinced. Guess I will go AMD after all. The Athlon 64 3500+ seems like a good buy, no?

The video card will be a 6800GS.

As for the motherboard, I'm a bit lost. Is there any board that you recommend? It has to be compatible with both PCI-X and AGP.

Thanks!


Yah! a miracle has happened. Good choice going with AMD. I'll see if I can find a PCI-E/AGP compatible board. The 3500+ and 6800GS is a good choice too. And bingo here are 2 I found on newegg

$62 - ECS K8T890-A (1.0A) Socket 939 VIA K8T890
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813135212

$68 - ASRock 939Dual-SATA2 Socket 939 ULi M1695
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813157081

I am not really sure which to choose but I have never used a ULi board before. Also if you plan on running dual channel memory go with the ECS as the ASRock doesn't have dual channel, or atleast the description doesn't say it does.

[Kenobi]

A little update on my upgrading decision, in case anybody's interested:

so, right now the upgrade has a total cost of about 500 euros. I might stretch it a bit further and get a 7800GT instead of the 6800GS. What do you think?

[BlackStar]

Seems your budget is creeping up there. :D

Obviously, the 7800GT would be better. Expensive, but better.

Does that mean you're not so interested in a PCIe/AGP board, or are you still planning to keep the older card for a little while?

[werty316]

You are better off with a 7800GT but that will stretch your budget even more than a 6800GS

[Kenobi]

Yeah, I know. I'm just keeping all options available, as sometimes you get great bargains in computer stores here in Portugal.

It's a bit of a contradiction, really. More often than not, computer hardware is overpriced around here. WAY overpriced. But every now and then you get these really, really good purchases. Not long ago there was this computer store outlet that had a Geforce 6800 GT for little more than 200 €. Unfortunately, it was already sold out when I went to pick it up.

The thing is, if I spot a 7800 GT for 350 € or less, I won't hesitate. If not, then the XFX 6800 GS XXX Edition is a great buy, too.

[werty316]

Heres a review of that ASRock 939Dual-SATA2 board if you are still interested in it.
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=355&num=1

[Kenobi]

^^ Thanks for the tip, but I've abandoned the idea of going Dual.

Well, in case anyone's interested, I've (finally) made up my mind:

The motherboard will be the Asus A8NSLI, and the CPU will be the Athlon 64 3200+.

As for the video card, it will undoubtedly be Nvidia. Every ATI card prior to the X1xxx generation lacks HDR and PS3, and since the X1600 is the only ATI card with a remotely interesting price/performance ratio (although it is completely slaughtered by the 6800 GS and the 6800 GT, but that's a different story...), I can't see any other possible choice but Nvidia.
The thing is, it is extremely unlikely that the 6800 GS hits the shelves here in Portugal before February or March. Seeing how my mobo is dying, waiting can hardly be a choice.

So, if by any sort of miracle I spot a 6800 GS in a store over here, I'll grab it (ordering from a e-store is out of the question; the mail service over can hardly be considered reliable, and besides, I don't feel comfortable with installing hardware).
If not, I'll get either the 6800 GT or the 7800 GT, the later being the most probable choice; I've spotted one of these for less than 400 euros! And it's XFX! So, here's what my (likely) setup will look like:

Athlon 3200+
Asus A8NSLI
XFX Geforce 7800 GT
1024 Megs DDR 400

The soundcard will be the "black sheep" in this rig, so to speak: a Creative Labs Live! 5.1. Not exactly the best there is, but oh well...it gets the job done, I guess. And it will have to do for now, at least.

I'd like to thank once again to all the kind folks who helped me with this!

[Kenobi]

I probably shouldn't be bumping this, but I have one more question:

I have a pretty regular case, a ATX one with a 450W PSU. Will this be enough for the upcoming configuration? Thanks in advance!

[werty316]

Well with the above parts that you are more likey on getting I would suggest getting a quality power supply with atleast 500W and atleast 26A on the 12V rail for the 7800GT. What brand is your 450W PSU?

[Neal_White_III]

Kenobi, if your 450W PS is of good quality, you should be fine. I have a similar system:

Athlon 64 3000+ (o/c to 3200+)
Asus A8N SLI Deluxe
XFX 7800 GTX
1.5 GB Corsair DDR 400
Hard drive, etc.

I'm running it all off of an Antec TruePower 430W PS and my system is very stable.

[zachig]

Well with the above parts that you are more likey on getting I would suggest getting a quality power supply with atleast 500W and atleast 26A on the 12V rail for the 7800GT. What brand is your 450W PSU?

I agree with werty316. I think that you should consider buying a decent PSU with at least 500W from a well-known manufacturer like: OCZ, PCP&C, ANTEC, ENERMAX...

If I would do such an upgrade like you're planning I would not want to end up with an unstable PC and/or Video Card. Altough, using a decent 430W/450W PSU might be enough, but not for long, since you'll be squizzing it and running it on its limit.

[werty316]

After blowing about 3-4 generic PSU I learned quality matters.

[liqnit]

i also had bad expirience with generic PSU - burned MB and and occasional crshes finnaly i got a decent one.
on the way also picked a good 1000w UPS

[werty316]

One very popular PSU is OCZ ModStream.

http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/power_management/ocz_modstream_power_supply

[zachig]

or even better, the OCZ Powerstream (600W preffered) :lol: If you have the budget of course :wink:

http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/power_management/ocz_powerstream_power_supply-sli_ready_

[liqnit]

at the rate the CGA cards are drawing Power you will hav eto get a CASE with 2 PSU

or build it yourself

http://www.procooling.com/index.php?func=articles&disp=52&pg=1

that way you can use 2 relative cheap PSU and get a very stable system.

[Kenobi]

OK...I've got some good news and some other news that, while not necessary bad, strike me as somewhat worrying.

I've finally ordered the parts: the Athlon 3200+, the Asus Nforce4 based mobo (the exact name slipped for the time being), and a Asus Geforce 6800 GT. Yep, not the 7800 GT, as the Asus card costed more or less the same as the 6600 GT.

Now, I'm worried about the PSU. I can't remember the brand, but it's 500w, 12A. Will this be enough?

[liqnit]

if it is true 500w then you will have no problem at all.
by true i mean if it from a known company and not generic (branless).

[zachig]

Yeah, liqnit is right, If your PSU is not from a decent well-known comapny, probably the 500W stated on the PSU is the 'Peak-Power' anf not the 'True-Power' of the PSU. Anyway, your whole system including the 6800GT should consume no more than 400W True Power, which means that you need at least 400W of 'True-Power'.

I guess that your 500W PSU will give you that, although, if I had a system like yours, I would go and buy a decent PSU with at least 500W 'True-Power' like: OCZ ModStream 520W or OCZ PowerStream 520W or PC Power&Cooling 510W or Enermax 535W.

Oh, and how many 'Ampers' do you have on the 12V rail? Is it 15A, 17A, 18A? If I'm not wrong, to be safe, you need at least 17A on the 12V rail, so check this out.

GOOD LUCK.

[Kenobi]

^^ In all honesty, I don't know. I did try to do a bit of research to compensate my hardware noobness, but I'm not sure if I got the facts straight. What I asked at the store was a good 500W, 12A PSU. That was all.

As a Star Wars fan, I feel that this is the right time to say "I have a bad feeling about this"...what worries me is the "12A" bit.

[werty316]

Can you provide a link if you bought it on the internet or know of a link like on newegg or tigerdirect? If the 12A in on the 12V rail then that really isn't much. If you plan on getting a 7800 video card or better you need atleast 26A on the 12V rail but I could be wrong.

[zachig]

Yes, please give us some additional information so we'll be able to help. If it's really 12A on the 12V rail (pay attention to the difference between Ampers and Volts), so this is probably the problem. Like said before, you'll need at least 17A or 18A on the 12V rail in order to run a 6800GT card properly. For a 7800GT card, like werty316 said, you'll need AT LEAST 22A!!!

[Kenobi]

The goods are due to arrive at the store tomorrow. I'll check the PSU's specifications and will give you the info as soon as possible.

Once again, thanks for all the help, guys. I really appreciate it.

[zachig]

The goods are due to arrive at the store tomorrow. I'll check the PSU's specifications and will give you the info as soon as possible.

Once again, thanks for all the help, guys. I really appreciate it.

You're welcome!!! :wink: Just update us when you'll get your stuff.

[Kenobi]

Again, some good news and some not so good news...

The goods are here! Well, most of them, at least.

They already had the Athlon 64 3200+ in stock, and yesterday they got the Asus A8N SLI Deluxe and the Asus Extreme N6800 GT. Great! Or so I thought. They don't have the PSU yet. The guy I usually talk to wasn't there yesterday. Nor today. The ONLY dude on the store was the owner's kid brother. Now, I don't have anything against 18 year olds, but this one worries me:

Me: So, the goods have arrived, right?
Him: Huh...I dunno
Me: They did...check those boxes stacked on top of my computer.
Him: Oh, yeah...well, I guess.
Me: What about the PSU?
Him: I dunno. What PSU?
Me: ...the one I ordered.
Him: Oh, that...huh, I dunno.
Me: Any predictions on when it'll arrive?
Him: I dunno...
Me: Do you think your brother might know something? Considering he's the boss and all that...
Him: Yeah, maybe
Me: Just let me know when he arrives...

Sorry, just had to vent. What annoys me is that the parts arrived yesterday, and something tells me that I won't get my computer back until next week. It's hard as hell to get some competent computer technicians around here, believe me

[zachig]

I can really understand your feeling. It's really annoying to know that your new system is ready except for one component that is missing and preventing you from taking it home, so you can install it and enjoy it.

Anyway, patience pays off. Be patient my friend, and try to get the older brother (the boss) on the phone so you can ask him what are the exact specifications of the PSU you've just ordered, cause maybe you'll need to change the PSU, don't forget that!

Keep updating. :wink:

[Kenobi]

The thing is, they didn't even begin to install it. They haven't done anything to the computer.

I found out what went wrong: one of their stores was robbed during the night. Which means that the older brother spent the whole day talking to the police and the insurance company.

Well, there's a bit of a irony in this: I work at an insurance agency, so it's a good thing that they're not my clients, or else there'd be another claim :lol: I know, I shouldn't joke about this...

Anyway, you're absolutely right, Zachig. Patience is a good thing. I just hope it's ready this week...

[Kenobi]

OK, some good news! The machine is ready, and the PSU has 18A on the 12V rail! Great!

Now, my 3DMark 05 scores are a tad low, I think.

On a
Athlon 64 3200+
Asus A8N Sli Motherboard
Asus N6800GT 256 MB

3DMark score of 4459. Something tells me that this is somewhat low.

Any input on this?

BTW, I'm using the drivers that came with the card: 66.97

[zachig]

First of all, CONGRATULATIONS!!! I'm glad that you got your stuff.

Now, for the PSU issue:

Like said before, you'll need at least 17A or 18A on the 12V rail in order to run a 6800GT card properly. For a 7800GT card, like werty316 said, you'll need AT LEAST 22A!!!

I'm glad theat your PSU has 18A and that it's working fine for you. I guess the PSU Wattage is enough for your current configuration, but I'm afraid that if you'll upgrade in the future to a 7800GT or above, you'll need a better PSU.

Regarding your 3DMark05 score, the score indeed looks low for the system you have. I think you should get something around 5600-6000Pts.

How much RAM do you have?

[Kenobi]

Thanks for the quick reply!

I have 1 Gig RAM.

I didn't mess with the settings in the Nvidia control panel. AA and AF are both application controlled, and the visual mode is set to quality.

P.S. The rig's still at the store. I tested it with 3DMark 05, and since it scored a bit low, I asked the folks there to take another look at it.

[Kenobi]

Something just struck me...Norton Anti-Virus was active (not running, but loaded on the task bar) and v-sync was application controlled.

Can these be the culprits?

[zachig]

Ohhh, I thought you already have it in your home :roll:

Anyway, it's good that you already checked the 3DMark05 score at the store and let the guys there try to solve it out.

After looking AGAIN in the internet to find some 3DMark05 scores for the 'ASUS N6800GT', I found a site that states the score of this card on a 'testbed' similar to yours:

Athlon 64 (939Socket) based computer
CPU: AMD Athlon 3800+ (2400MHz) (L2=512K)
Motherboard: ASUS A8N SLI Deluxe based on NVIDIA nForce4 SLI
RAM: 1 GB DDR SDRAM 400MHz
HDD: WD Caviar SE WD1600JD 160GB SATA.

They got the following Marks in 3DMark05:
1024x768 resolution, trilinear (http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/digest3d/1204/itogi-video-m-wxp-1024.html) - 4742pts
1280x1024 resolution, trilinear (http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/digest3d/1204/itogi-video-m-wxp-1280.html) - 3754pts
1600x1200 resolution, trilinear (http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/digest3d/1204/itogi-video-m-wxp-1600.html) - 3102

So it seems that your score is not that bad afterall , but still it's lower a little bit.

I say, you should wait a little and let the guys at the store do their job and maybe they'll find what's wrong. But DO NAG THEM :lol:

GOOD LUCK

EDIT:
Something just struck me...Norton Anti-Virus was active (not running, but loaded on the task bar) and v-sync was application controlled.

Can these be the culprits?

Yeah, maybe this explains the difference between their score (4742) and your score (4459).

[Kenobi]

Zachig, everyone on this post has helped me a lot, but I earn you a special thanks.

The difference in my score and the one that you posted can be easily explained: I have a slower CPU (Athlon 64 3200+ vs Athlon 3800+). Right?

Thank you VERY MUCH once again!

[zachig]

You're welcome, mate! :wink: I'm glad I could help. That's why we're here! :)

[Kenobi]

Silly, silly me. I've been thinking, and I've just realized the obvious. Of course the scores look low:

1st - Norton was enabled. That thing is a resource hog. A few more apps were loaded, too.
2nd - Drivers were set to quality. Most people run 3DMark with drivers set to performance.
3rd - An old driver set was used. Will try Forceware 77.77 as soon as possible (8x.xx seem to be somewhat problematic, so I'll stay away from those for the time being).

Problem solved, I guess. I'll take the computer home today and will do some more testing. I'll update this thread of course.

I've lost count to how many times I said "thank you"...but you people really deserve it. THANK YOU!

[werty316]

Try using the newest drivers v81.98 form nVidia's website. Good to see you have everything up and running ans also that you choose AMD. I am trying to get my brother to get a A64 system but he is gonna stick with Intel. Too bad.

[Kenobi]

With Forceware 77.77 the score jumped to 4950. And this with Norton, Messenger and a few more tasks loaded. I'd say that's pretty good.

The thing is, when I took it home Windows XP wouldn't load. I got an error saying "file ntoskrnl is either missing or damaged. please reinstall windows". I thought that this had to do with the fact that a PSU-to-IDE adapter was missing, so my second hard drive only started working after this piece was applied. But no configuration was made other than the automatic one.

But - and this is freaky - when I took it back to the store it worked flawlessly. And they didn't do anything. What can be causing this?

[zachig]

Hey, 4950 Points! Good for you, that's pretty impressive. Let us know what score will you get without Norton and Messenger. I'm looking forward to see some scores over 5000. Hehehe :lol:

Regarding the 'ntoskrnl' damaged file, it happened to me once but, like you said, after rebooting and starting windows again, it didn't reoccur. I guess that the file couldn't be read properly, due to some damaged data or a loosened cable or something, I honestly don't know the exact reason. :wink:

Hey, it least now it's working. But, you shouldn't be worried with that, it's really a minor issue that can be solved easily.

Anyway, enjoy your new PC and share with us your impressions.

Don't hesitate to ask more questions if you have any.

C'ya. :D

[Kenobi]

It was the keyboard!! The damned keyboard had a broken pin (my fault, hehe) and that was causing a conflict.

Tried my cousin's keyboard, and I broke that too...well, I gotta buy 2 keyboards (using an old one now), but at least it's working!!!!

Installing Quake 4 now...will let you know how it works ;)

[Kenobi]

So...well, you can say that Quake 4 works...but that wouldn't be enough! It rocks!

1024x768, High detail, all options on, FSAAx4, no tweaks whatsoever, it runs flawlessly!

And that STILL with Norton and Messenger loaded :D

P.S. If the thread is getting boring and you want me to stop updating it, do let me know.

[zachig]

I'm happy to hear that Quake 4 rocks on your computer!!!

How do you like the game? Have you played the previous Quake games? I'm asking becasue I havn't played Quake 4 yet, but I know the old ones.

I'm still curious to know what will be the score of 3DMark05 on your system without Norton and Messenger. When you the time, give it a run, will ya?

Oh, don't worry about boring us. When we'll get bored we'll tell you. And beside that, if one is bored, he doesn't have to enter this thread, doesn't he? :lol:

[Kenobi]

Well, about Quake 4...I love the game. But that's probably because I loved Quake 2, which still is one of my all time favourite games.
And also because I didn't expect the game to be more than just what it is: a solid, pretty straightforward, old school influenced game with awesome graphics and plenty of gore. It's an excellent, addictive game.

Now, about the benchmarks: I'm just waiting to get my hands on Kaspersky. That, combined with AVG, will give me a more trustworthy anti-virus solution while demanding far less resources than Norton.

I've tried F.E.A.R. already...1024x768, everything max except AA and Soft Shadows, and it runs like a dream.
Installing Path of Neo now...got it a couple of weeks ago but it didn't work on my Geforce 4 Ti 4200. I know, the reviews say that the game sucks. What can I say? They also mention that the game is like Enter the Matrix...a game that I happened to enjoy a lot.

Will install COD 2 next ;)

P.S. If you're finding this game install frenzy kinda bizarre, there's a reason for this: a friend of mine will spend the weekend at my place, and he's a gamer too.
Besides, my wife also likes to do a bit of gaming every now and then :)

[zachig]

Besides, my wife also likes to do a bit of gaming every now and then :)

:lol: Oh, I wish my wife could do a bit of gaming too :( . Maybe then, she could have understand me. :wink:

[Kenobi]

COD 2 runs like a dream at 1024x768, DX9 mode, max detail settings. That's something I didn't expect, considering that lots of people complain about the game's poor DX9 performance.

The Path of Neo runs great, too. Sure, the graphics are far from impressive and there are camera and control flaws, but the game is fun nevertheless.

I ran 3D Mark 05 with no non-essential apps loaded. Strangely enough, my score was pretty much the same. But that's probably because I had installed SP2.
Well, 4950 is fine by me 8)

It's cool to see how Pixel Shading actually has a very visible impact on the looks of a game. Take Halo, for example. It's a not-so-recent game, right? Well, it looks amazingly better with PS 2.0 than it did with PS 1.1 on my old Geforce 4 Ti 4200. And Serious Sam 2...wow, talk about a HUGE difference!

About my wife doing a bit of gaming...it's not like she'll turn on the computer and start a Quake 4 session. But she likes a few games, Mashed being her favorite.

[zachig]

4950 is fine by me 8)
That's pretty good compared to other 6800GTs.

It's cool to see how Pixel Shading actually has a very visible impact on the looks of a game. Take Halo, for example. It's a not-so-recent game, right? Well, it looks amazingly better with PS 2.0 than it did with PS 1.1 on my old Geforce 4 Ti 4200. And Serious Sam 2...wow, talk about a HUGE difference!
Just think about the difference PS 3.0 makes in new games. :roll:

About my wife doing a bit of gaming...it's not like she'll turn on the computer and start a Quake 4 session. But she likes a few games, Mashed being her favorite.
That's also something. The only games that my wife plays are "Minesweeper" and "Solitaire" and even this, once in a month or so. :shock:

[Kenobi]

So, here's what might be the final update on this thread:

I finally broke the 5k barrier! 5040, to be more precise. That's good enough for me!

Age of Empires 3 runs smooth as butter with max detail settings, and so does Fable at 1024x768 with 4xFSAA.

There's one minor issue, though. Today I shut down the computer, only to turn it back on a few seconds later.
I heard that the computer had turned on, as the fans started doing their thing and what not. The thing is, there was no beep (as far as I can remember) and I got a "no video output" message. I panicked for a moment, but after shutting down the computer and turning it back on the problem didn't happen again. I turned the computer off and on again a few more times and all was fine.

I had checked the bios a few minutes before to check the CPU's temperature, but exited without performing any change whatsoever and Windows booted normally.

As I said, this issue only happened once. Do I have reasons to worry?

[zachig]

First of all, congrats on breaking the barrier of 5k!!! :wink:

Regarding the "No Video Output", I don't have a clue, but just keep on eye on this one. Right now, I guess you don't have to worry. But, if it will happen again, and again...then I would start to worry.

Keep updating... :wink:

[HoldemHi20]

I have an AMD process 2600+ and have had not problems with it. I actually prefer the AMD they are cheaper and faster in my opinion the Intel.