Congressional hearings on domestic spying

[digitalwanderer]

Gonzales is set to take the stand in about a half hour, (if I got my timezones straight this time...), and I felt it was going to be worthy of it's own thread.

Got my kids fed, my son to school, the laundry started, and a fresh pot of coffee a brewing and I am ready for the fun! :D


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Specter just said that he discussed having Gonzales sworn in and Gonzales agreed to be, but he didn't find it neccessary?!?!

Wimp. :roll:

Specter quoted some law that he says has the same penalties as perjury and it binds Gonzales, but I missed what it was.

******************

Feingold just questioned Spectre on not swearing in Gonzales.

Feingold is not letting it go, good for him. They're talking about Gonzales previous appearances and how he was sworn. Leahy jumped in talking about how Gonzales lied to Feingold previously and is saying that Gonzales should be sworn in.

Good. 8)

******************

Sorry, I'm a hopeless political junkie. :oops:

[digitalwanderer]

Wow! The democrats pushed for a vote to over rule the chair's ruling and force Gonzales to be sworn in and lost along straight party lines.

No surprise that they lost, I'm just glad they tried. They ain't letting it go yet either, Leahy (ranking democrat on the committee) is ripping Gonzales a new one on it right now.

Leahy's points are all valid, Gonzales already lied under oath to congress....he should be sworn.

[digitalwanderer]

Oh, you can watch it live online at either CSPAN (http://www.c-span.org/) or over here at the WaPo (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/video/2005/04/12/VI2005041201139.html)....for you folks stuck at the work-thang.

I gotta go watch it in my living room on the big TV, the republicans are getting me too pissed off...I need to work out on the bowflex while watching this and put all that aggression to some good use. ;)

[digitalwanderer]

10 minute break, smoke 'em if you got 'em.

Senators are doing commentary in the lobby and I just want to jump into my TV set and fricking deck Sessions! He's just finished talking about how he finds it silly to hold these hearings since he finds it apparent that the Pres has been straight forward and operating above board and the idea that the Pres would break the law is just ridiculous.

Then he introduced the sister of the pilot of the plane that crashed into the Pentagon to endorse domestic spying, claiming that it could have saved us the grief of 9/11. :roll:

Think the right will be pushing the scare card again?

(I warned you I was a political junkie! I watch this stuff the same way other people watch professional sports... :oops: )

[digitalwanderer]

Lunch break, isn't Feingold up after lunch?

And if you think not posting up will slow me down about posting about this crap, you don't know me very well. ;)


BWAH-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!!!!! :twisted:

I can't wait for Feingold's questioning, it should be the money shot of the day. I should have just enough time to walk my daughter to kindergarten and get back before the committee reconvenes...

[shanewu]

Gotta love the scare card. ;)

I find these posts, which keep making me think you should have a political blog, entertaining so keep 'em coming, digi. I got your back. 8)

[Scott]

Well since we are going to have blogs with the new site design maybe Digi will partake and create his own over here on politics.

[shanewu]

Well since we are going to have blogs with the new site design maybe Digi will partake and create his own over here on politics.
I was thinking that too. :)

[digitalwanderer]

I'm no good with blogs, it's too "me" centric-ish for me to really enjoy...not enough interraction.

I like the boards, I like open discussions. They fit my lifestyle perfectly since I can hop on the boards and spend a few minutes and then go deal with my real life for a bit, anything more is usually either too much (like IRC) or not enough (like blogging).

The hearings are just pure theatre and spectical to me, as well as being historic and such. I wasn't into politics/government when I was young, I didn't have the bug bite until I was about 17 but since have just thrown myself into it with a passion....it's too fascinating!

The neat thing for me is watching on how they re-write/pretty up our history, I prefer the ugly nitty-gritty...that's more where the truth lies for me.

With all the cable access to this stuff the level you can get into it is just sick! Two different CSPAN channels running 24/7 and more blog commentary/dissection of whatever is on than one man could ever hope to follow!

For intermission they're showing a Scotty McClellan press conference, always fun to watch a fat man sweat. :twisted:

[Scott]

Well should I give you a political forum to post and debate such things in Digi?

[digitalwanderer]

Hey I'm easy, off-topic is just spiffy so long as the politico stuff odn't clutter it up.

They put political lounges in over at EB & B3D because they all got tired of watching a few of us fight... :oops:

I'd be more than happy to try blogging again, mebbe I'll get it right one of these days.

Back on topic, the hearings just restarted....

Spectre announced they're going to have another day of hearings with a second round of questioning tomorrow, and Gonzales has agreed to come back.

Shhhhhh! Feingold just started...... :twisted:

[digitalwanderer]

Feingold is not letting Gonzales duck the fact that he lied to him previously.

Re-cap of what Feingold is pissed about (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/30/AR2006013001318_pf.html):

In a letter to the attorney general yesterday, Feingold demanded to know why Gonzales dismissed the senator's question about warrantless eavesdropping as a "hypothetical situation" during a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing in January 2005. At the hearing, Feingold asked Gonzales where the president's authority ends and whether Gonzales believed the president could, for example, act in contravention of existing criminal laws and spy on U.S. citizens without a warrant.

Gonzales said that it was impossible to answer such a hypothetical question but that it was "not the policy or the agenda of this president" to authorize actions that conflict with existing law. He added that he would hope to alert Congress if the president ever chose to authorize warrantless surveillance, according to a transcript of the hearing.

In fact, the president did secretly authorize the National Security Agency to begin warrantless monitoring of calls and e-mails between the United States and other nations soon after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. The program, publicly revealed in media reports last month, was unknown to Feingold and his staff at the time Feingold questioned Gonzales, according to a staff member. Feingold's aides developed the 2005 questions based on privacy advocates' concerns about broad interpretations of executive power.

Gonzales was White House counsel at the time the program began and has since acknowledged his role in affirming the president's authority to launch the surveillance effort. Gonzales is scheduled to testify Monday before the Senate Judiciary Committee on the program's legal rationale.

"It now appears that the Attorney General was not being straight with the Judiciary Committee and he has some explaining to do," Feingold said in a statement yesterday.
Gonzales claims that since Feingold questioned him about a hypothetical about electronic survelleince in violation of the law, and since Bush wasn't in violation of the law he didn't lie. :roll:

Feingold basically said bull**** to it and is moving on.

****************************

Holy ****, Lindsey Graham is actually stringing out Gonzales!

Using the Uniform Code of Military Justice Graham is pointing out that Congress CAN regulate what the military does.... :shock:

The man does not like the inherent authority argument, good for him.

I hate Graham with a passion, but it's hard for me to hate him on this one since he's right and all. 8)

[digitalwanderer]

Anyone notice all the senators having comb-overs? I HATE comb-overs! :?

[digitalwanderer]

Dick Durbin!!!!! :D

Democrat from the great state of Illinois, and damned he reminds me of a region rat/Chicago politician...but he is TOASTING Gonzales directly on his legal arguments and is shredding him every step of the way!

He directly, (and IMHO very decisively), disproved the Homde(sic) decision as it related to electronic survellience. (The case where the Supreme Court upheld that the Pres had the power to detain an american indefinately if he is called a "terrrrrist". :? )

Ripped it apart, it's lying in bloody shreds and Gonzales is swayed!

Brownback is up now and playing the "scary terrorists!" card up, I'm taking the puppies out.

[3D_Mind]

Too bad the whole "hearing" is a sham, just like the 9-11 Commision. It is a coverup/false investigation organized by the guilty party (BushCo) to get peoples ideas confused and their minds off the real subject and debate. The real investigation here should be the fact that their was, and still IS, spying on American citizens daily and the fact that that is ILLIGAL under every law that this country is SUPPOSED to follow, which INCLUDES the Goverment.

This is cause to IMPEACH this dictator but no one will. All we victims get from our inJustice system is a wimpy "hearing" that will change NOTHING. Seriously, just reread this thread, are any of the commits by our politicians really hard hitting or even on subject! They are arguring about minor points rather just coming forth and saying the obvoius which is that it was, and is, ILLIGAL!

This spying business has NOTHING to do with Terriost groups, which the government FUNDS and NUTURES(the CIA BUILT the tunnels that AL-Quida uses and Osama is an ex-CIA AGENT), and everything to do with pure, unrestrained POWER over the citizenship that the Administration, and those above it(yes there are those above the President, quite alot in fact), crave. This is a survalience dictatorship in the makeing and it has been for the last 30 years, just read your history and look a little deeper then the wimpy Political SuperBowl "Democrates vs. Rebulicans", and you will see what is happening and it is that history is repeating itself, but with the most powerful technology man kind has ever known. My GOD help us all...

[digitalwanderer]

I'm hoping we can help ourselves out of this one, but I can't really disagree with a thing you said.

I read an article yesterday about how Rove is cracking the whip over all the republicans on the committe to stick by the president, they suddenly seem to realize that if they lose in this one it is almost a certain impeachment.

Only a couple of republicans have to go against the pres, and there are a couple who are pissed off and leaning that way.

(The article was on HuffPo if you want to check it out, I'm too busy this morning to chase/post links right now...sorry.)

[digitalwanderer]

I got unlazy, I have a feeling this story will be an important part of the hearings.

It seems that Karl Rove is working hard on the republican committee members (http://www.insightmag.com/Media/MediaManager/Rove2.htm):

The White House has been twisting arms to ensure that no Republican member votes against President Bush in the Senate Judiciary Committee�s investigation of the administration's unauthorized wiretapping.

Congressional sources said Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove has threatened to blacklist any Republican who votes against the president. The sources said the blacklist would mean a halt in any White House political or financial support of senators running for re-election in November.

"It's hardball all the way," a senior GOP congressional aide said.

The sources said the administration has been alarmed over the damage that could result from the Senate hearings, which began on Monday, Feb. 6. They said the defection of even a handful of Republican committee members could result in a determination that the president violated the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. Such a determination could lead to impeachment proceedings.
I just can't believe that I'd ever be hoping that Graham and Orr would save the day... :?

[Null]

Scene: Somewhere overseas in the Middle East.

The phone rings.

"Hello. Praise be to Allah. This is Osama bin Laden. Brother, how is Miami? Good, yes. How's the weather? Hot? Good! And the women too? Very hot? Excellent. Listen carefully. I have some urgent news concerning our cause. It will allow us to destroy the infidels once and for all."


Meanwhile, across the ocean, thousands of miles away at NSA headquarters an intelligence officer has picked up the conversation.

"Sir, we've just picked up an overseas transmission from Osama bin Laden to one of his operatives in the United States. What should I do, sir? Hang up, sir? Are you sure? This is the most wanted terrorist in the world and we've got him online right now. Yes sir, I understand that we don't have a warrant. Yes sir. Uh huh. Right away, sir. I'm hanging up now, sir."

"We wouldn't want to upset Bill and Hillary, I guess," he mumbles distainfully under his breath.

[digitalwanderer]

Scene: Somewhere overseas in the Middle East.

The phone rings.

"Hello. Praise be to Allah. This is Osama bin Laden. Brother, how is Miami? Good, yes. How's the weather? Hot? Good! And the women too? Very hot? Excellent. Listen carefully. I have some urgent news concerning our cause. It will allow us to destroy the infidels once and for all."


Meanwhile, across the ocean, thousands of miles away at NSA headquarters an intelligence officer has picked up the conversation.

"Sir, we've just picked up an overseas transmission from Osama bin Laden to one of his operatives in the United States. What should I do, sir? Hang up, sir? Are you sure? This is the most wanted terrorist in the world and we've got him online right now. Yes sir, I understand that we don't have a warrant. Yes sir. Uh huh. Right away, sir. I'm hanging up now, sir."

"We wouldn't want to upset Bill and Hillary, I guess," he mumbles distainfully under his breath.
One teeny, TINY little problem with that....it's never happened. The only "plot" this program caught was the terrorist "mastermind" who planned to destroy the Brooklyn Bridge, with blow torches..... :roll:

Besides, the scenerio you described is already covered by FISA. They could get a warrant for listening/acting on the information they got up to 72 hours after getting it.

[Null]

One teeny, TINY little problem with that....it's never happened.

Not too sure it never happened under Bill nor too sure it wouldn't happen under Hillary.

Is FISA superceded by the Sept. 14, 2001 use of force resolution which Congress passed to authorize Bush to fight al Qaida?

That is the question.

Yea or nay?

Choose your side.

[digitalwanderer]

Is FISA superceded by the Sept. 14, 2001 use of force resolution which Congress passed to authorize Bush to fight al Qaida?

That is the question.

Yea or nay?
No, the wording in FISA is quite clear and there is nothing in the UFR which would superseed it....it's all pretty clear legally, everything else is just FUD.

[Null]

"the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force"

107th CONGRESS

1st Session

S. J. RES. 23

September 14, 2001



I guess we'll just have to wait to find out just what is is.

This is more exciting than Monicagate.

[digitalwanderer]

Yup, we will see. :)

[digitalwanderer]

It's official, I now love Senator Feingold!

A text of his upcoming speech (http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Feingold_President_breaking_law_0207.html):

We need answers. Because no one, not the President, not the Attorney General, and not any of their defenders in this body, has been able to explain why it is necessary to break the law to defend against terrorism. And I think that’s because they can’t explain it.

Instead, this administration reacts to anyone who questions this illegal program by saying that those of us who demand the truth and stand up for our rights and freedoms have a pre-9/11 view of the world.

In fact, the President has a pre-1776 view of the world.

Our Founders lived in dangerous times, and they risked everything for freedom. Patrick Henry said, "Give me liberty or give me death." The President's pre-1776 mentality is hurting America. It is fracturing the foundation on which our country has stood for 230 years. The President can't just bypass two branches of government, and obey only those laws he wants to obey. Deciding unilaterally which of our freedoms still apply in the fight against terrorism is unacceptable and needs to be stopped immediately.

Let’s examine for a moment some of the President’s attempts to defend his actions. His arguments have changed over time, of course. They have to – none of them hold up under even casual scrutiny, so he can’t rely on one single explanation. As each argument crumbles beneath him, he moves on to a new one, until that, too, is debunked, and on and on he goes.
It's a pretty long speech, but it's good! Rips apart every argument presented to date about wiretapping. :)

[Null]

"I yield the floor."

He's a huffin' and a puffin' yet I doubt if he'll really blow the Bush White House down.

He might get some sparks flyin' and light a fire though under some liberal asses that need to be lit.

But I rekon the Commander-in-Chief is safe. Top LawDawg says his he.

Feingold ain't top lawdawg. Generaliso Alberto Gonzales is.

This round will most likely go to the administration. Personally, I don't see them losing this fight.

But, only time will tell.

[digitalwanderer]

The "top lawdawg" is a liar! :lol:

[Null]

The "top lawdawg" is a liar! :lol:

The Sheriff of Knottingham may very well be presenting false statements as being true, yet somehow I don't see Feingold so adorned in Robin Hood's tights. :wink:

[digitalwanderer]

The "top lawdawg" is a liar! :lol:

The Sheriff of Knottingham may very well be presenting false statements as being true, yet somehow I don't see Feingold so adorned in Robin Hood's tights. :wink:
I don't care how he dresses as long as his aim is true and his arrows sharp. 8)