Seriously XFX, Help?

[Blackjaw]

I submitted another help ticket this morning. My computer is still crashing in 3D apps (Oblivion, HL2, FEAR). Doom 3 didn't crash, but I only played it for about 3 minutes (wife was calling). It either crashes to desktop or reboots with blue screen error message. All drivers are up to date. The only thing I didn't do is flash my bios on the MOBO or do a fresh install of XP. Does anyone think either on of these would help? Look at my setup in my signature, does anyone think I have to much of a load on PSU?

It should be noted that I did a MOBO swap in order to get a PCI-X video card into my setup. Did not do a clean install because I found a method that did not require me to do one. It worked flawlessly and my OS is stable.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[Kougar]

Rosewill is really a okay offbrand PSU, but I'd be surprised if that is it. You can try this program, it should display all of your current voltages, amongst other things. http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php (http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php). Running those games within a window while you watch the voltages is one way to find out for sure.

I however would recommend updating your motherboard's BIOS... if you have never done so it definitely needs it by now, considering it's an older 754 socket board.

[XJnine]

Looks like your case should be cool enough but you might want to try running it with the side off for a bit and see if things run better. Could be a heat issue.

If that fails I would start with a fresh reinstall of windows before you look at hardware issues. Even though the OS is stable running windows can be done with even the most basic of video functions and you may not discover a software problem until you do something exotic like run games.

[Blackjaw]

Thanks for your quick replies. I will do a bios update and clean install to see if that helps. Makes me sad, because of all the work I put into getting XP to run so smoothly for me. I did run it with the side off and that did not help. I monitored the temps with speedfan and did not see anything that made me worry. Didn't realize I could also watch voltages too.

I never get further than 5 minutes in Oblivion. HL2 crashes immediately. FEAR crashes immediatley. I just thought it seems like a hardware issue, My brother thought it was unholy of me to try to do a MOBO swap without a fesh OS install.

Thanks again.

[Kougar]

It crashes in all of those? That doesn't sound good... Have you tried underclocking the graphics card, and applying heatsinks to the memory/voltage regulators? Warning that trying either of these officially voids your warranty though...

Sounds like it's just another problematic, to far factory overclocked 7900GT card. :(

[Blackjaw]

It actually is the 470Mhz version. I think that is OC, but nothing drastic. I down clocked it to 465, didn't make a difference. Didn't know if I should also down clock the RAM also? I only had about 10 minutes to play with it this morning. I am becoming completey frustrated with the whole situation.

[Bio-Hazard]

Before you get to upset, try a fresh install of Windows and everything like XJnine said. It helped with my XFX 7900GT (same version as your's I think).

[Blackjaw]

Yeah. I hope to crack a beer tomorrow night after the kids are in bed. Then attempt the bios update and fresh XP install. Thanks again for your help and replies.

[xfxsupport]

I have tried to locate your support ticket but I am guessing you did not use this same name there. If you have not received a respoinse from our support team please give me the ticket number so that I can follow up on why your problem has not been addressed. However hopefully I can give you some assistance here. Power is verymuch an issue with any high performance cear and this card is very particular. It is recommended that you have an SLI approved PSU or a 350w PSU with a minimum of 20amps on the +12v rail. Even if you are below this you should still be able to run the card but not at optimum performance. Before you run out and spend any money on a new PSU please allow us to assist you in rooting out the source of the problem. I know from past experiences that youdont aleways have to do a clean install of windows when you upgrade your platform but please keep in mimd that you have changed the mainboard, and the video card. Both crucial components that have essential drivers that do not like to be messed with. It may be possible the remains of the old drivers are conflicting with the new chipset and video drivers. Please let us know hwo the card performs after you reinstall the OS.

[Blackjaw]

My older post has XFX support telling me there is something wrong with my card and I should RMA. Before I do that, I am going to do a bios update and clean install of XP. If the problem still persists, then I think we can conclude this is a hardware problem. I will post here again whether I am successful or not. Thanks. I shall return.

[Scott Sherman]

I would actually do a new power supply before wiping out windows. Go to Best Buy or Circuit City and get the biggest one you can get. Then try it, if it fixes it you know it was power, if not return the power supply and get your money back.

[pym]

I suggest you to create an image of your hard drive as it is now so you'll have all your programs and stuff backed up.
Then, try a fresh install of windows and one of those games that crashed.

If that doesn't work, go back to your image and and buy a new PSU like Scott said.

Good luck and keep us posted with your status... ;)

[Blackjaw]

At around 9:30pm EST tonight I will be trying to save my third child from the brink of just being an ordinary desktop computer. I miss gaming so much that I think I am changing as a person and that scares me. An update will appear sometime before the end of the weekend. Thanks again for your knowledge and support.

[Blackjaw]

Well, I updated bios and reinstalled XP. The verdict: it still crashes or reboots. The next option is to try a different PSU. If that fails, RMA land it is. Here is the error I was able to obtain from the MS report:

Error Signature
BCCode : 1000008e BCP1 : C000001D BCP2 : BFAD7430 BCP3 : B6D25A34
BCP4 : 00000000 OSVer : 5_1_2600 SP : 2_0 Product : 768_1

Technical Information
C:\DOCUME~1\KEITHH~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\WER6295.dir00\M ini061006-01.dmp
C:\DOCUME~1\KEITHH~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\WER6295.dir00\s ysdata.xml

[edit] Add this. I was just using email and Firefox:

Error signature
EventType : BEX P1 : explorer.exe P2 : 6.0.2900.2180 P3 : 41107ece
P4 : unknown P5 : 0.0.0.0 P6 : 00000000 P7 : 00000008
P8 : c0000005 P9 : 00000008

Tecnical Info
C:\DOCUME~1\KEITHH~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\WER2612.dir00\e xplorer.exe.mdmp
C:\DOCUME~1\KEITHH~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\WER2612.dir00\a ppcompat.txt


Fun.

[Blackjaw]

Tried Antec 480W True 2.0 from CircuitCity. Did not fix the problem. Even with a SLI approved power supply, I still am having problems. I think there are only 2 culprits left: the videocard or the fact my MOBO may not like my Geil RAM. I think the former will be more true, but I have no other system to try it on. My RAM worked fine in my older board, so I know it is working order. Don't know. Sucks.

[werty316]

If you think its the ram try running memtest86 if you haven't done so yet.

http://www.memtest.org/#downiso

[Blackjaw]

I ran MemTest. I keep getting errors in test #5 consistently. I read this on their website. Does anyone know what any of the results of MemTest really means?

There have been numerous reports of errors with only tests 5 and 8 on Athlon systems. Often the memory works in a different system or the vendor insists that it is good. In these cases the memory is not necessarily bad but is not able to operate reliably at Athlon speeds. Sometimes more conservative memory timings on the motherboard will correct these errors. In other cases the only option is to replace the memory with better quality, higher speed memory. Don't buy cheap memory and expect it to work with an Athlon! On occasion test 5/8 errors will occur even with name brand memory and a quality motherboard. These errors are legitimate and should be corrected.

Would this cause my game problems?

[Kougar]

Yes, this is very likely the problem. I would not even trust your reinstall of XP to be completely stable, as it appears your memory is giving out incorrect information when stressed.

I would suggest you go into the BIOS and verify your memory voltages, then check your memory ratio and the timings. Two things you can do is to give them an extra .5 volts above the default specifications and run the tests again to see if that was enough. And/or you can relax the timings on them. You might just want to set them to 4-4-4-8 timings and run the tests and see if that fixed the errors, because if it does you know the timings for your system were set to tight. Finding the correct timings is usually a trial and error method, best done with long memtest runs. ;)

[Bio-Hazard]

Try one stick at a time at the default (SPD) timings that Geil gives for the ram. Seeing as you listed it as DDR400 and 2x512 sticks, the timings could be anywhere from 2-2-2-5 to 2.5-3-3-7 at a normal 2.65 volts, but check out Geils web site to confirm. To me it sounds like one of the sticks might be bad.

[Blackjaw]

I tested one stick so far. Two 3D apps are stable so far, Oblivion (plays like crap without that other stick) and DoD:S. I want to test the other one tomorrow night to see if it is the actual culprit. What are the odds that it is not my memory, but instead my slot? Is that a possibility? I read someplace that Circuit City might be able to test your RAM, possibly for free, gonna check into that. I hope it is just that one stick. I feel that this will soon be over. What a relief?

[Bio-Hazard]

It's possible that the slot is bad, but more likely the ram. All you have to do is complete testing the ram in the one slot fist to make sure that both sticks are good, if they are good, then your slot may be bad. But I haven't seen that ever happening unless there was some sort of phyical damage to it.

[werty316]

Results don't really matter, but it matters if you get errors and since you did one of your sticks is bad.

[Kougar]

You should still use memtest to this these, otherwise the problem might not become apparent.

If you test both sticks of RAM individually and they both pass all tests successfully, then you'll know there is an incorrect BIOS setting being used. Which leads back into my previous post that either the DDRvcc voltage is set incorrectly or the timings are too tight.

[Blackjaw]

Well Kougar, I apologize. I didn't even see your earlier post. I think you really might be on to something. I tested both pairs separately and no errors. I tested them in each of the individual slots and no errors. I even retested the pair together switching them into different slots, no errors...but when I started windows, I got that random restart with a blue screen error that I can't ever read because it flashes for only a second. I am using the SPD settings that were stored on the chip, I also was using just auto before thate. Errors occurred in both instances. I was hoping to learn how to start overclocking with my semi-new setup, but I guess I need to get some decent RAM first. I am going to try playing with the timings and voltages to see if anything works.

[Kougar]

No need to apologize, I still miss a fair number of posts due to user error or glitches I've never figured out. It's what I get for being to lazy to manually browse the entire forum for new posts and using the New Posts feature I guess. ;)

I was going to ask if you had correctly put the ram into the correct slots for dual-channel setup, but then I remembered Socket754 doesn't support that... and the Abit NV8 only has two slots anyway :roll:

Okay, to be more productive now... Can you post the exact specs of this ram? The timings and voltage printed on the labeling? The only Geil Ram I found that matches yours is listed on NewEgg with a voltage of "2.55V-2.95V" which makes zero sense to me.

First off be careful about the voltages you try, if you go to high you might burn them out. Of course my old IS7 board didn't have a high enough setting for that, so I am pretty sure yours definitely will not, but it should still be mentioned ;)

Based on my experience with my own Abit motherboard, I can say that the AUTO and SPD are bad enough that I may never let a motherboard "autoconfigure" itself again :roll:

Without knowing your exact memory I can't say anything other than manually forcing your memory to 3-4-4-8 timings, and forcing the voltage to 2.65v which is par for value DDR400, as Sbrehm said preivously. Then test for errors, and if everything checks, try and load windows. I hate to say it, but your XP install might be bad anyway since you reinstalled it using RAM that was giving errors at the time. Since you said both sticks finally did pass tests when run together...

Assuming you can get into windows at some point, right click the My Computer icon --> Properties --> Click the "Advanced" tab --> Click the settings button under "Startup and Recovery" --> and in the section titled "System Failure" UNcheck the box next to automatically restart. That will let you read the BSOD messages next time ;)

Also, from my experience with Abit boards... there are just some types of memory they don't get along with. There is no real reason why... (You can quit reading here for useful info if ya want ;) )for example, when I first bought some performance ram for this set up to OC beyond the 3.5ghz limit at tight timings... This was 2x512mb G.Skill DDR550 RAM designed to OC past DDR600 on looser timings... Samsung TCCDs actually. I first set the RAM to DDR400 and ran it with a 1:1 CPU/FSB Ratio at 2-2-2-5 timings. It was fully stable. I wanted my 3.4ghz back, so I upped the FSB overclock again keeping the 1:1 FSB, since this memory can out-stretch my processor by a good margin. End result and a few nights of headaches later, I was able to determine that I could run this memory at timings of DDR400 @ 2-2-2-5, and anything higher would run at 3-3-3-8 as far as I could push it. The catch is, this is Samsung TCCDs, and the official specs rate them to run at 2.5-3-3-7 up to DDR550. The most voltage I could give them was only 2.8v though, I am not sure if the 2.85v everyone recommended would have made enough of a difference to let my machine boot or get into windows stabiliy at 2.5-3-3-7 timings or not.

Since my Crucial value mem lets me run it at 2.5-3-3-7 speeds at stock 2.65v DDR400, (when specs call for CL3-3-3-8 at DDR400), I simply reverted back to a 5:4 ratio, lowered the OC to DDR400 speeds, and yanked out the performance RAM.

(You can start reading again now ;) )
Getting yourself some new RAM might be the the most painless way to fix your problem, I'm not sure how much longer you want to deal with this. But again, I would bet your fresh reinstall of XP on the unstable RAM knackered it somewhat too...

While it's rather hard to walk into any store and find Crucial memory (Most "compatible" ram out there, known for it and their stability where other brands of ram fail), I'd also trust Mushkin... Kingston is a stable brand, but you get exactly what you pay for. Corsair is fine too...

[Blackjaw]

This is what NewEgg has listed.

Brand: GeIL
Series: Value
Model: GE512PC3200B
Type: 184-Pin DDR SDRAM
Capacity: 512MB
Speed: DDR 400 (PC 3200)
Cas Latency: 2.5
Timing: 2.5-6-3-3
Voltage: 2.55V-2.85V
ECC: No
Buffered/Registered: Unbuffered
Heat Spreader: Yes
Manufacturer Warranty: Lifetime

I can't find my exact model on Geil's website, but this is what they had listed in the Value Series section:

Comparable Product in Current Lineup
CAS 3-7-4-4 (GE5123200BDC)
2.55V-2.95V

OEM Value Series
CAS 2.5 8-4-4 @ DDR400MHz PC3200
2.55v-2.85V

Can you explain one thing to me as to why my computer is fine with only one stick of RAM in? I just want to understand. I am just hoping that maybe the SPD settings are either to aggressive/under-aggressive with my MOBO. Could this cause the errors, instead of a hardware failure? (Forgive me if I am just not getting it.) I may go to Circuit City again after playing with timings (if this fails to resolve the issue) and buy some Kingston RAM and see if that works, then return it after testing. I think I saw some HyperX there.

Also, would a repair install of windows fix things if I continue to have problems after eliminating the RAM problem?

[Kougar]

Honestly, I would first say it only works with one stick because the voltage is higher on it... To put it another way, if the voltage is set to low, splitting the voltage across two RAM sticks only makes a bad situation worse, yet with a single stick might work, or at least work better.

Those memory specs are worthless as far as voltages go... Try manually setting your ram to 2.75 volts with both sticks in and see if this fixes things. If not, relax the timings to as high a number as they can go... if both of these don't work then there is simply nothing you can do except overvolt the heck of the memory or get new RAM. :(

To asnwer your question about Windows.. I have done repair installs before. Sometimes they will fix everything. Sometimes they will not, because the problem is rooted to deep, and only a reformat and reinstall would work. Since I doubt you have had time to personalize and rebuild your new install of XP, I would suggest playing it safe and reinstalling once you get RAM that is known to work without errors.

[Blackjaw]

I want to thank everyone for their help, espcially Kougar. I upped the voltage on my RAM and everything has been running fine so far (fingers crossed). I went from 2.60v to 2.70v. I don't have a 2.75v setting. I ran MemTest for a half hour and no errors. I played Oblivion for 30 minutes and no crashes. I also played DoD:S for about 45 minutes crash free. I couldn't even play either of these games for more than 4 minutes. Once again thanks for your support and help. Next step is to see if my setup will overclock. I don't want to sink anymore money into this setup, because I plan to upgrade in the spring to either Conroe or AMD M2 to be ready for VISTA.

Blackjaw.
(aka Mr. Hartman)

[Kougar]

Glad to hear you got it working!

I am pretty sure 2.65v is the minimum working voltage for your ram. Leaving it at 2.7v is probably a good idea ,and shouldn't hurt anything, if you plan to OC your rig now. I wouldn't up the voltage any further though, not with value memory. :)

[Blackjaw]

Yeah, I am not expecting anything great from my OC with this particular RAM or PSU. I just want to give it a try, so I know what to do and what to buy for my next setup. Thanks again.

[Bio-Hazard]

Ram can take a lot more voltage than a lot of people give them credit for. Hell, I've cranked up to 3.8 into differant sets of ram before along with some good cooling as it will get pretty warm...........;)

[Chakka]

Rosewell is Neweggs "cheap" psus and I really think you get what you pay for. While he doesnt have an N4/n5 mobo (power hungry mobos), if you do decide to upgrade your mobo in the future, imo the first thing you should buy is a high qualty psu. Plan on spending at least $100.

[Kougar]

Ram can take a lot more voltage than a lot of people give them credit for. Hell, I've cranked up to 3.8 into differant sets of ram before along with some good cooling as it will get pretty warm...........;)

The Samsung TCCD's I tried to play with got uncomfortably warm at just 2.8v, which while is nothing for those kinds of chips, it was the highest setting the IS7 allows me to use!

I was pretty sure I'd read somewhere that overvolting the value branded memory chips was worse than any of the enthusiast's chips, and they would sometimes just give out when pushed? You have me curious, did you try 3.8v in any value memory? ;)

[Bio-Hazard]

I normally stay under 3v with any of the value stuff, you just need to go in small steps and monitor the heat out put. I did have some standard Samsung PC2700 (333MHz) stuff that I ran up to 425 MHz without any problems. And then there was a set of Kingmax PC2700 that ran as high as 450 MHz. As long as you go slow, you'll get error before you burn it out.

I only take the high-end stuff like BH5 and the like up into the extreme high voltages, I have a set of OSZ Gold that will run at PC4200 speeds with 2-2-2-5 timings with only 3.4 volts..........:)

[Blackjaw]

I noticed that sbrehm72255 and Chakka have OC'd 7900GTs. Are these factory settings? Do you have aftermarket cooling (ie. Zalman VF900 or waterblock) or heatsinks on your chips?

Since I am new to this, what is the benefit of being able to throw more voltage at your RAM? Does this allow you to up the speed?

[Bio-Hazard]

I got this OC out of some basic Mushkin DDR400 back in my XP days.

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/6844/cpuz2400ql.jpg

[Bio-Hazard]

I noticed that sbrehm72255 and Chakka have OC'd 7900GTs. Are these factory settings? Do you have aftermarket cooling (ie. Zalman VF900 or waterblock) or heatsinks on your chips?

Since I am new to this, what is the benefit of being able to throw more voltage at your RAM? Does this allow you to up the speed?
Depending on the ram, the more voltage you give the ram, the higher the clock speeds and tighter timings you can run. Not all ram is able to do this, it all depends on the IC's used to make the moduals. And most motherboards don't support the extra high voltages to reach exteme ram speeds. That's why I use a DFI Ultra NF4 board, they can supply up to 4.0 volts to the ram.

My 7900GT is slightly OC'd fro the factory, the reast you have to do on your own. 7900GT stock cooling is total junk IMHO, they will run much better and cooler with aftermarket cooling. But it will also void your warranty installing it unless you have a eVGA board.

Here's a link to the cooling I have on my 7900GT.

http://www.bjorn3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6901&page=7

[Blackjaw]

Your case is totally sweet. Nice and roomy. I think it is bigger than my half-bath on my first floor. Watercooling is the way to go. Thanks.

[xfxsupport]

Dear Blackjaw,
Just want to check in to make sure that your video card is functioning propely and that you have determined the fault to be in the RAM? It seems that you have narrowed sdownt he error and are along the right path to fix it. Please let us know if you have any other questions.

[Blackjaw]

Yeah, all is good. Crash free since I upped the voltage to my RAM. Many hours logged in Oblivion and DoD:S.

[xfxsupport]

Great Happy Gaming!!..