Microsoft denies WGA kill switch in Windows XP

[Bio-Hazard]

When it rains, it poors I guess, MS is having nothing but bad PR over it's WGA program.



June 30, 2006 (Computerworld) (http://www.computerworld.com/) -- Microsoft Corp. today denied speculation that it plans to cripple copies of Windows XP for users who refuse to install its controversial antipiracy tool, Windows Genuine Advantage (WGA). But the software company confirmed that for its upcoming Windows Vista operating system, companies will be required to activate their software differently than they do today in order to prevent the leakage of volume licenses that are the source of most Windows piracy.
A ZDNet.com blogger reported earlier in the week on a conversation between a Windows user and a Microsoft support staffer, who allegedly admitted that users who refused to install the WGA update would be given 30 days before their copies of Windows would stop working

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9001559&source=rss_news10

[werty316]

If they deny this then why the hell did M$ impliement this program? Good thing for Corporate versions ;)
Maybe Bill shouldn't retired in 2008 just yet lol

[Kougar]

Interesting, I hadn't heard about this one yet. At first glance I thought it was another article on the WGA = MS spying on us spiel.

But I look at it this way though... why shouldn't MS disable all pirated copies of their OS they come across? I don't know about you, but I'd sure hate to plunk down $200 or whatever for Vista Ultimate or Vista Pro, knowing MS lets people get away with installing it for free without any consequences... and then even gives them free support/fixes/patches anyway. If they they do not, they will either get sued or everyone will lose when the pirated install picks up some malicious bugs due to a old, known exploit.

That'd all but guarantee I'll just pirate it myself, and as an enthusiast I'd know or could find out what to do to run it as if it was a legal copy, politly telling MS when they offer to "update" that no, I don't want to install their nagware, and to not remind me again to install it because I already know my OS install isn't legit... ;)

[werty316]

I guess it isn't fair for user to pay the full amount for an OS when others got it for free. One type of CD they can't ban/block are the Corporate versions as it requires no activation at all; all you need is a serial nmber and thats it :) I just hope there is a Corporate version of Vista.

[mousiness]

there should be and if there isnt thatd screw over many many many business people that base their lives off of PC's like im guessing you guys at b3d? or like my dad.

[vfrex]

Watch Microsoft flip off Windows installations that fail WGA when they end support for XP. At least, it would make sense to use it as a scare tactic to get people to switch.

[mousiness]

i betcha some big bucks thats gonna happen damn M$ and its money-making schemes

[Rob]

If you're like me, you're no saint when it comes to purchasing/using software. That includes OSes (Windows, specifically). If MS follows through on their plans to implement a new authentication system for Vista I'll most likely not run that OS. (And maybe you won't be able to, either.)

So join in with me and learn Kubuntu/Ubuntu/Xubuntu Linux! :P It's actually a lot easier than I ever expected. If you're an intermediate to advanced user of Windows then you can do ok with K/U/Xubuntu. Really. My 86 year old grandfather is even using it. No joke!

But I am glad MS isn't implementing a pirated WindowsXP nuker. Whew! :P

[vfrex]

Its funny you should mention that Rob, as I am going to be trying to get away from Microsoft due to this WGA crap. Previous attempts have failed when I couldn't get sound working. This time, I'm looking for a sound card with decent Linux driver support. Haven't decided on the version yet, but SUSE is looking pretty.

[werty316]

Reason to get a Corporate version, if they are produced, as they don't have that WGA and activation crap. Just install, keyin a serial and BAM you're ready to go.

[Rob]

Its funny you should mention that Rob, as I am going to be trying to get away from Microsoft due to this WGA crap. Previous attempts have failed when I couldn't get sound working. This time, I'm looking for a sound card with decent Linux driver support. Haven't decided on the version yet, but SUSE is looking pretty.

I'm using a Sound Blaster Live! Value on my Kubuntu Linux system. Seems to be working just fine. But then again, I am not much of a gamer these days so sound isn't very important to me.

[vfrex]

Did it take any/much configuration on your part? It seems like anything soundblaster that doesn't fit into the EMU10k umbrella doesn't seem to have much support.

[Xero (1)ne]

ubuntu is a great version of linux, really easy and quick
i wanna try out chainsaw linux because i like to do some sound editing and video producing every now and then,
but im with you guys on the wga crap, in fact i need to activate right now....i got 22 days left...ive tried multiple cracks, but to no avail....i think i havta downgrade to sp1.....oh and
DONT GET VISTA
its going to be the worst one yet, stick with xp, vista is going to do nothing but make your gpu warm.....dam userfriendlyness

[Rob]

Kubuntu picked up my SB Live! with no configuration by me. It just worked. Same for the onboard NIC, USB, Zip drive, and onboard (i810) video. Things just....worked. I was really amazed.

Kubuntu and Ubuntu are exactly the same other than Kubuntu uses the KDE desktop and Ubuntu uses Gnome.

[Rob]

but im with you guys on the wga crap, in fact i need to activate right now....i got 22 days left...ive tried multiple cracks, but to no avail....i think i havta downgrade to sp1.....

To avoid getting WGA just install a fresh copy of WinXP SP2 and make sure to turn off Automatic Updates. Don't get any updates at all...ever. Period!

[werty316]

To avoid getting WGA just install a fresh copy of WinXP SP2 and make sure to turn off Automatic Updates. Don't get any updates at all...ever. Period!

So does turning off Automatic Updates disable that stupid WGA? I didn't now that.

[Kougar]

Kubuntu picked up my SB Live! with no configuration by me. It just worked. Same for the onboard NIC, USB, Zip drive, and onboard (i810) video. Things just....worked. I was really amazed.

Kubuntu and Ubuntu are exactly the same other than Kubuntu uses the KDE desktop and Ubuntu uses Gnome.

Ahh, thanks for explaining that. So really it's only a users preference as to which "Explorer" they prefer, KDE or Gnome... Also is good to hear you didn't require any extra drivers. I am surprised it picked up the Zip drive though!

[Kougar]

To avoid getting WGA just install a fresh copy of WinXP SP2 and make sure to turn off Automatic Updates. Don't get any updates at all...ever. Period!

Actually, it's even simpler than that, which is why I think the entire uproar about WGA is just silly. People are worried about MS spying on them playing big brother, when they don't have a clue what they are doing on a PC...

I have two illegit XP SP2 installs running on an old P3 and 948mhz TBird system, as I don't feel that I need to go out and buy anymore Windows licenses than I already have.

Regardless of my reasoning though... set Automatic updates to only notify you of updates. Be sure to read the name of each update as they are listed, and install all the critical patches and updates needed. The trick, is when you see the "WGA Installer" package appear on this list, uncheck it. You can then set Automatic Updates to forever ignore and not install the WGA program. XP won't care, it's that simple to not install it. I can keep my two non-legit machines up to date just fine without any sort of nagware. :roll:

[werty316]

I have never updated once since SP2 was introduced; I never had any problems so why update it at all I say and my version of XP doesn't have that WGA crap.

[vfrex]

XP is insecure enough that I'd be concerned with not getting security updates. Yes, SP2 helped a lot. But come on, its windows!

[Rob]

Ahh, thanks for explaining that. So really it's only a users preference as to which "Explorer" they prefer, KDE or Gnome... Also is good to hear you didn't require any extra drivers. I am surprised it picked up the Zip drive though!

Yep, it's all about what desktop environment you prefer. You can also go for Xfce, which is a very minimalist and lightweight desktop for old and slow machines, or there's another one called Fluxbox. But I don't know anything about Fluxbox.

[Rob]

So does turning off Automatic Updates disable that stupid WGA? I didn't now that.

Since WGA is not included in a fresh SP2 install it has to come down via a Windows Update. What I should have said is never have your system set to Auto Update. That will let Xp download and install any updates it finds---and WGA is an update it will find and install. Like Kougar was saying, you can pick and choose what updates to get. But be extra extra sure you know which ones you're installing. Be sure to research the KBxxxx number that Windows Update is offering.

[werty316]

I haev never updated since SP2 and probably never will ever.

[Das Capitolin]

Reason to get a Corporate version, if they are produced, as they don't have that WGA and activation crap. Just install, keyin a serial and BAM you're ready to go.

Werty I am ashamed that you would post advice like this.

People who do this are the reason I have to go through so many hoops when I purchase enterprise license software for clients. Because of thieving end-users who use corporate license software, my business gets screened every time I purchase these products. You may not have to activate enterprise license software, but WGA is just the latest step in tracking it; and it IS still installed on enterprise license O/S's. You don't think they are aware of how many times a key is used? Think again. I have a close friend who moved to Redmond to work with MS and he has told me about some of the things they are aware of.

I truely hope one day all of you will software you haven't paid for have you systems rendered inoperable because of it. You deserve it. If you stole a Bently, eventually you would get caught. Just because a product sells for more then you think it should be, and just because a company has more money then you think they should, doesn't mean you should steal their software and violate their efforts to create the software.

Do you think you deserver free software? Maybe you can learn to write products as feature rich as Microsoft has, and the give it away. Tell me how you fell about that. Stealing something as small as a penny still makes you a thief, and it characterizes you as someone who cannot be trusted to do what is right and what is legal.

[werty316]

You don't work for those anti-piracy groups do you? Yeah its wrong to use something I didn't pay for but if I can get it for free off the net why not? I might as well use my broadband connection to its fullest potential.

[Das Capitolin]

You don't work for those anti-piracy groups do you? Yeah its wrong to use something I didn't pay for but if I can get it for free off the net why not? I might as well use my broadband connection to its fullest potential.

Man, apathy is rampant these days.

I can steal gas from the cars on my street because the cars are all there with gas in them, but that is clearly wrong. I don't see the difference. Stealing software is nearly the same as shoplifting. Nobody gets to see a direct damage, because the company stolen from just raises the price to compensate for the loss.

BTW, Microsoft World Licensing is located here is sunny Reno, Nevada. The businesses I manage get audited all the time by the BSA, of which I am a member of.

[Kougar]

You don't work for those anti-piracy groups do you? Yeah its wrong to use something I didn't pay for but if I can get it for free off the net why not? I might as well use my broadband connection to its fullest potential.

I'm sorry, but I just don't agree with this. To take an extreme example, just because I can borrow a family member's shotgun and a box of ammo, and walk to the nearest convienence store and rob it (It's that close to me), run my way back home in a roundabout way through the neighborhood, replace the shotgun and shells when I eventually get back just because that family member would never have a clue I'd done so would clearly be wrong.

It's the same thing as when I walk through the halls of my University, I could swipe a lone laptop that I frequently see sitting on a study bench, stuff it in my backpack while the owner is gone or outside smoking their cigarettes & talking on their cell phone, and then nonchalantly walk off with a cool $500 from ebay in 7 days... that beats getting something for free doesn't it?

Anyways, here is my take on it. Software piracy does cost a company. Say that you argue that the individual that DLed a illegal copy of the program would never have bought the legal program if they couldn't obtain it illegally, so it isn't a lost sales/profit. Well, even so that illegal user will incur support fees through downloaded patches, updates, upgrades that the software company will have to pay, et all. This is partly why I am surprised that Microsoft supports illegal installs as much as they currently do, because it does add a good amount to the costs of the software business. In their case it probably adds a very sizable figure.

All of that said... I will admit I have and do use some DLed illegal software, infact I think I said as much about XP above. While saying that I try to justify it probably doesn't help my defense in some people's eyes, I do. If I've already paid for MS Office and Windows XP, infact more than just one copy even, there is a point there when I think it's silly to have to buy it a second or third time just to have a second install on a different machine when only I will be using it. So I guess I'm straddling the fence little on this one...

But this is probably why you would find quite a few freeware, shareware, and other open source software on my machines as well...

[vfrex]

Ok, I'm very cranky. I just had a very large post here that disappeared because I got logged out of the forums before I hit post. Since it was a quick-reply, its gone.

Anyway, look at it like this. Microsoft has been exploiting people on a large scale for over 12 years. They are a bane to innovation in the tech industry, as evidenced by the $30,000,000,000 in cash they are sitting on. Their model is to trap people into their software, and force them to upgrade it when new versions come out. Regardless of the fact that older version of Office do everything we need, no, we still need to spend $300 buy Office 2007, because the ribbon makes everything easier to use! Microsoft packs features that people don't want into software that people don't want to continue to pay for. This model is a disgrace.

Why do you think they worked so hard to push Netscape out of the industry when they tried to introduce web based productivity software services? Because it was obviously more efficient than Microsoft's model. Microsoft would have no way to compete with it.

If I was going to use pirated Microsoft software, I wouldn't justify it by saying "I do it because I can". I would say, I do it because Microsoft chose their model. Their Office model costs us $11,000,000,000 per year. Their Windows model maybe around $5,000,000,000. One of the downsides to Microsoft's choice of models is the ease of piracy associated with it. They have reaped the benefits of exploiting their model, and now, so will I.

Personally, I'll be trying to use Linux or FreeBSD in my next build. If the driver support is there, I don't think there is anything stopping me.

Microsoft is in trouble, and it's not piracy that is going to do them in. It is their inefficient model. They managed to push Netscape out of the market in 1994 or 1995, but this is a different age. Suppose Google releases a full line of web-based productivity software that retains all of the functionality that the majority of users actually utilize. It's free, supported by ads, with the option of buying an ad-free subscription. Perhaps you can incrementally buy premium features, a couple of bucks for 1000 extra fonts.

Suppose google finishes rolling out a productivity suite that is good enough for most? That will cut into Microsoft's office revenue to some degree. And, as the service isn't limited to Windows, it removes a major barrier for moving to Linux. But Linux is too difficult for the average user you say? Well, Rob said that his grandmother is using Ubuntu. Further, this is just another market for google to conquer. With a portal of E-Mail, Productivity Software, and Search functionality, Google could sell a line of computers with a stripped down Ubuntu. Throw on firefox and some easy to follow wizards for setting up an internet connection (is that really even necessary? Most home users use a simple DHCP anyway). All of a sudden, google's operating system desktop has 3 icons.

1) Web
2) E-mail, launches firefox and brings user to gmail
3) Productivity, launches firefox and brings user to google productivity software

That doesn't require much processing power. Most of the processing is done on the server side. Google sells cheap computers with the googleOS on them that retain all of the functionality that the majority of users need. Microsoft becomes almost completely obsolete.

[Das Capitolin]

Ok, I'm very cranky. I just had a very large post here that disappeared because I got logged out of the forums before I hit post. Since it was a quick-reply, its gone.

Anyway, look at it like this. Microsoft has been exploiting people on a large scale for over 12 years. They are a bane to innovation in the tech industry, as evidenced by the $30,000,000,000 in cash they are sitting on. Their model is to trap people into their software, and force them to upgrade it when new versions come out. Regardless of the fact that older version of Office do everything we need, no, we still need to spend $300 buy Office 2007, because the ribbon makes everything easier to use! Microsoft packs features that people don't want into software that people don't want to continue to pay for. This model is a disgrace.

Why do you think they worked so hard to push Netscape out of the industry when they tried to introduce web based productivity software services? Because it was obviously more efficient than Microsoft's model. Microsoft would have no way to compete with it.

If I was going to use pirated Microsoft software, I wouldn't justify it by saying "I do it because I can". I would say, I do it because Microsoft chose their model. Their Office model costs us $11,000,000,000 per year. Their Windows model maybe around $5,000,000,000. One of the downsides to Microsoft's choice of models is the ease of piracy associated with it. They have reaped the benefits of exploiting their model, and now, so will I.

Personally, I'll be trying to use Linux or FreeBSD in my next build. If the driver support is there, I don't think there is anything stopping me.

Microsoft is in trouble, and it's not piracy that is going to do them in. It is their inefficient model. They managed to push Netscape out of the market in 1994 or 1995, but this is a different age. Suppose Google releases a full line of web-based productivity software that retains all of the functionality that the majority of users actually utilize. It's free, supported by ads, with the option of buying an ad-free subscription. Perhaps you can incrementally buy premium features, a couple of bucks for 1000 extra fonts.

Suppose google finishes rolling out a productivity suite that is good enough for most? That will cut into Microsoft's office revenue to some degree. And, as the service isn't limited to Windows, it removes a major barrier for moving to Linux. But Linux is too difficult for the average user you say? Well, Rob said that his grandmother is using Ubuntu. Further, this is just another market for google to conquer. With a portal of E-Mail, Productivity Software, and Search functionality, Google could sell a line of computers with a stripped down Ubuntu. Throw on firefox and some easy to follow wizards for setting up an internet connection (is that really even necessary? Most home users use a simple DHCP anyway). All of a sudden, google's operating system desktop has 3 icons.

1) Web
2) E-mail, launches firefox and brings user to gmail
3) Productivity, launches firefox and brings user to google productivity software

That doesn't require much processing power. Most of the processing is done on the server side. Google sells cheap computers with the googleOS on them that retain all of the functionality that the majority of users need. Microsoft becomes almost completely obsolete.

So I take it you would be posting a "no" in my poll here: http://www.bjorn3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8833

[vfrex]

If I did, I would not advertise it on a largely public forum.

[werty316]

So you guys are telling me you don't have one app that is pirated and be honest now.

[slugbug]

It wasn't too long ago that MS told us that everyone would have access to critical updates. How quickly they've changed their tune :roll:

[Kougar]

It wasn't too long ago that MS told us that everyone would have access to critical updates. How quickly they've changed their tune :roll:

Everyone still does, even the pirates.... Not sure where you got that information from. :confused:

[dukeman]

i buy very little software because of the high price tag that they attach to them. to me it is like record companies charging $15-$20 for a music cd that only has one or two good songs on it. Pisses me off.

but i do purchase a legit copy of windows for my home. To me it is much easier when it comes to problems or re-installs. I will most likely buy vista when it comes out too. We have been waiting for years for a windows 64 bit system besides linux so i will fork out the $200 that the devil will charge us for it.

I also do buy certain games that my kids like so they can play online. But i also have probally over 100 illegal games that i have downloaded for them to try before we buy. It sucks paying $40 for a game that is crap and you cant return it because it is open.

[Enigmachine]

WGA won't even install on one of my legit Windows boxen, and I don't know why. I'm glad Microsoft is not insane enough to shut down copies without WGA... Can you imagine the gigantic lawsuit that would ensue?

[eko]

Why don't they give new versions free if you bought the old one ?!
Or why don't they give Office for the same price?

[annarovita]

The WGA kill switch did kick in when I scheduled a chkdsk to run on next reboot. They are lying about it not kicking in - the keyboard was LOCKED - there was no prior notification - those WGA screens came up AFTER the keyboard was locked. Computer came up only in SAFE MODE. Corporate customer. When I clicked on RESOLVE now, it went to a go.microsoft site THAT NO LONGER EXISTS.

Computer was purchased 2 years ago.

Took it to Best Buy at 8pm. Best Buy looked at the hologram sticker and said the computer was genunine. Someone there mentioned the reseller - a MAJOR NORTHERN CALIFORNIA NAME - had been cited for non genuine licenses, but that it was in the newspapers this reseller was ALSO burned by Microsoft themselves. While acknowledging our company had been screwed, non of this was fair business practice, they offered their "911 service", meaning, 24 hour turnaround - which would have cost us $900 dollars. They tried to figure out a way to lower the cost to us. However, all our biz programs would have to be reloaded. This means we're SOL for 3 days.

Hey - what do you expect of a country and their anti-Racketeering policies that decriminalizes KEN LAY of Enron, and lets BILL GATES - IMO a higher echelon racketeer than KEN LAY or CARLOS MARCELLO (Mafia to those of you
outside the US) - get away with CORPORATE TERRORISM?

Anna
...I know what the A stands for in WGA. The bottom line is the real cost is this one incident WILL start a process that WILL end Microsoft. I guarandamntee that.