Passive card cooling thoughts/help? [Archive] - Bjorn3d.com Forums brought to you by XFX

vfrex

07-02-2006, 02:52 AM

I'm getting ready to build a new system designed to be pretty quiet. To help with the whole quiet thing, I am getting a passive XFX 7300GT. The case is going to be an Antec p150. I will keep the 120mm fan on the back of the case and will add a 92mm up front.

So, there won't be any fan directly pushing/pulling air over the card. I've read that opening a slot under your graphics card can help with cooling, so I was wondering if you guys had any suggestions about that. My thought was have the fans in the case create a negative pressure. With a 120mm in the back along with the PSU fan, I think I can get away with it pretty easily. the 92mm up front is really only going to be useful for cooling the hard drives, so it doesn't need to move all that much air. Also, since the 120mm is in the back, hopefully it will allow me to spin it faster without actually hearing it than the one up front.

Anyway, negative pressure is easily created. Now, I need to find a way to exploit it. My thoughts are to seal up as many holes as I can at the back of the case. Hopefully, the result will be a more effective vent created out of the opened PCI slot. Will this work? Should I be concerned about the vent pulling in dust? Any suggestions on filtering it?

mousiness

07-02-2006, 02:55 AM

:mrgreen: yeah youre probably in for a lot of trouble with those holes sealed up and the dust will be horndous in there, i suggest doing your idea just without the sealed up holes and stuff, maybe even a pci card cooler, but the 7300 itself doesnt get very hot at all, so theres no need for all this fancy shmansy negative pressure stuff, just be simple and itll all work out

vfrex

07-02-2006, 03:00 AM

Heh, I've been trying to put together the "perfect" system since early April. Not sure how much more I could overthink it!

One of the draws to the 7300GT is that it seems to perform very well when overclocked. I'm not sure if I'll do that right off the bat, but if and when I do, I would hope to improve air flow a bit. Also, one complaint I have seen about the reference passive cooler design from NVIDIA is that it doesn't really cool anything aside from the core. Memory sticks are covered by the HS, restricting air flow to them, but making no contact. Maybe I'm looking at it wrong (not like I have it yet), but air flowing up from below/behind the card might do a better job of cooling the parts of the card that don't make contact with the HS.

Am I overthinking it?

werty316

07-02-2006, 03:05 AM

I've messed around with a P150 and not sure what you mean by an "opening" under your graphics card; do you mean vents ports on the side door? This case doesn't have any vent holes on the side door. Well anyhow its pretty basic, the case includes one 120mm fan to exhaust hot air and is able to accomidate 2x92mm fan to blow in cool air from the front of the case.

If you used a PCI slot as a vent it will over time pull in dust. The front panel uses a plastics filters that should provide enough filtration.

I taped up all holes in my case and used the front and rears fans for ventilation.

mousiness

07-02-2006, 03:06 AM

get a copper passive cooler, cut it up, and use it instead of the passive cooler if youre so paranoid- like me hehe its good being so overthinkative iof thats a word, just watch out not to make any drastic mistakes, and BTW if youre thinking of OC'ing a silent pc, the fans will be running faster because of the added heat BTW which will cause the pc to go into bezerk mode fan speed like an XFX card cooler

werty316

07-02-2006, 03:08 AM

If you want a good aftermarket VGA cooler any of them form Zalman a great performers and are quiet.

mousiness

07-02-2006, 03:09 AM

i thought about the zalman idea too but ive never seen proper sized actual VGA passive coolers from zalman unless you take off the fan from the card, damn the cooler is even bigger than the damn pcb on that puny 7300 lol

werty316

07-02-2006, 03:18 AM

Zalman coolers are quiet even with the fan on it. Zalman is known for quiet efficent coolers.

vfrex

07-02-2006, 03:19 AM

mousiness

07-02-2006, 03:22 AM

wertys right, with fanmate zalmans are so damn quiet it seems your pc isnt running at all, i suggest those coolers, aerocoolers arent great and their fans are crazy loud, go for a zalman even with the high price tag, oh and for even better quietness, get heatpipes with their morbitally huge prices

werty316

07-02-2006, 03:23 AM

Werty: By hole under the card, I mean if I were to open up the PCI slot under it.

I might look into those Aerocool (I think?) passive coolers. I'll wait for more reviews, but they are supposedly pretty effective.

I am getting a motherboard with a number of board controlled fan headers. So hopefully, the amount of heat being put out at any given time will be proportional to the noise.

Actually, maybe this would be a good place to ask. Would I be voiding my double lifetime warranty by overclocking or replacing the stock cooling on the card?

OK thats what I thought. Doing so won't really help since the 7300GT is passively cooled and so there wouldn't be a fan to suck air in.

You could also use a quite 80mm fan and attach it to the 7300GT heatsink.

All companies except for BFG can allow overclocking and aftermarket coolers without voiding your warranty,... or was it eVGA,.... its one of the two.

Also even if they don't allow overclocking and aftermarket coolers who to know that you did overclock and used an after market cooler? No ones the wiser if no one knows right.

mousiness

07-02-2006, 03:23 AM

anyways guys here at b3d know what theyre talking about, i gotta go watch fireworks so cyall

vfrex

07-02-2006, 03:31 AM

Eh, sorry, it wasn't aerocool. It was aerocase.

http://www.aero-case.com/

Werty, the idea behind creating a negative pressure case and sealing off all possible holes besides the PCI slot that I would open up under the card should pull cool air over the heatsink in theory. At least, more cool air than there would be without any modifications.

werty316

07-02-2006, 03:41 AM

RIght I never thought about that but the air would be blown over the card efficently since there is no fan on it to suck the air on the heatsink but the negative pressure might make a difference.

Another way to to make a PCI card cooler like I did here:

http://www.bjorn3d.com/photo/data/500/medium/Coolmaster_Centurion9.JPG
http://www.bjorn3d.com/photo/data/500/medium/Coolmaster_Centurion10.JPG

vfrex

07-02-2006, 03:47 AM

Are those two fans held on by zipties?

Das Capitolin

07-02-2006, 03:50 AM

Actually, maybe this would be a good place to ask. Would I be voiding my double lifetime warranty by overclocking or replacing the stock cooling on the card?

I'm not the XFX Support expert, but last I heard: Yes, it will void your warranty.

werty316

07-02-2006, 04:01 AM

Are those two fans held on by zipties?

Yep; 6 zip ties used to make it; and it cools quite well too.

mousiness

07-02-2006, 04:03 AM

zipties are the answer for all your computing needs i tied up a bunch of broken SATA (exposed) cables with em but i eventually replaced em im such a perfectionist

bloodwolf

07-02-2006, 04:12 AM

Zalman coolers are quiet even with the fan on it. Zalman is known for quiet efficent coolers.
Yup, gonna get one of those for my 1900xt. :-D

Kougar

07-02-2006, 04:16 AM

Actually, maybe this would be a good place to ask. Would I be voiding my double lifetime warranty by overclocking or replacing the stock cooling on the card?

If it is an XFX card, then yes. Any over/underclocking or replacement of the stock cooling would completely void your warranty. Hopefully XFX will at least realize their stock cooling options are below par compared to their competitors and at least allow users to changes these.

The P150 already has vents alongside the PCI slots, so leaving a PCI slot cover off won't do much if anything. You might look at jury rigging a fan mount of some kind for your passive graphics card though... After looking at the XFX 7300, I think you're right in that you would need a fan blowing air across the underside, since it won't get any air from the CPU cooler. Somehow sticking a 120mm fan under the entire card blowing up into the heatsink it would would work great...

Das Capitolin

07-02-2006, 07:12 AM

Quite frankly, I think that passive cooling is nice but not a good option for todays video cards. The Artic Cooling "Silencer" series has got it right: exhaust the heated air outside the case. Passive cooling is not very efficient. It's only real attribute is that it is silent.

vfrex

07-02-2006, 01:21 PM

I read that Arctic Cooling is removing that very feature from the coolers.

mousiness

07-02-2006, 02:54 PM

you might wanna think of buying another better card like the passively cooled asus series that werty has been posting about inm daily nws, that would save you all this trouble

vfrex

07-02-2006, 03:30 PM

mousiness

07-02-2006, 03:33 PM

oh yeah i completely forgot on that part, get a new passive asus when you do so :-D

Das Capitolin

07-02-2006, 04:13 PM

I read that Arctic Cooling is removing that very feature from the coolers.

They aren't removing that feature from the active cooled NV/ATI Silencer series; they have come out with two new series of products that are passive and compete with Zalman. They are the Accelero X1 and S1.

vfrex

07-02-2006, 04:50 PM

http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=32065
That thread makes a lot more sense to me now.

mousiness: The ASUS passively cooled cards seem to carry a premium. The price may be worth it, but honestly, I'm not attached to fully passive cooling. The reason why I decided to go with it this time was due to all of the reports of the geforce 7 series fan control not working properly. Along those lines, maybe a reference passive cooler with a PCI cooling rig would work.

I'm really new to the whole silent computing thing, so I have no real concept of the amount of noise anything generates. I've never really heard hard drive seeks since everything else in my machine is so loud. Along those lines, I don't know what my Radeon 9800 fan sounds like...

werty316

07-02-2006, 05:07 PM

When it comes down to it, this card isn't going to be long lived in my computer. I am buying a "low end" card for now, and will get a higher grade one after DX10 cards come out and become established. This needs to last me 12-16 months.

Smart move but you might have to wait a while before an DX10 are actually out and also lets hope Vista don't bomb as Vista isn't all that different that XP other than the bling factor; early tests show XP a bit faster but once DX10 hardware is out that could all change.

I am also curious what chip are you going to buy, AMD or Intel? Ever thought about the Core 2 Duo (Conroe)? It is damn fast.

vfrex

07-02-2006, 05:22 PM

I'm going AMD. Conroe does seem nice, but I have no desire to wait until the end of July to order/build.

werty316

07-02-2006, 06:06 PM

True plus with AMDs price cut paying the extra $500 or whatever it would cost for 130FPS compared to 100FPS isn't worth it and noticable.

mousiness

07-02-2006, 08:39 PM

I'm going AMD. Conroe does seem nice, but I have no desire to wait until the end of July to order/build.
thats not even in 3 weeks dude, you might as well have ordered it, us intel guys are purely intel and dont switch, ive nevr in my life bought an AMD product, EVER. :-D

werty316

07-02-2006, 08:54 PM

For the price getting a E6700 isn't justified for an extra 50FPS when a X2 at half that price is good enough as long as a fast video card it used with it. You won't notice 100FPS compared to 150FPS.

mousiness

07-02-2006, 08:57 PM

trust me you will while surfing in cs and while playing bf2, everything runs much smoother, and plus, processors (more expensive ones), are mainly for name and price sake

werty316

07-02-2006, 09:03 PM

100FPS is damn smooth. The Core 2 Duo will last longer by a bit but I wouldn't pay double the price when a X2 3800+ is half the price and performs quite well when OC'd.

mousiness

07-02-2006, 09:06 PM

are you sure its double of the x2? intel prices are really cheap and i expect this proocessor to be no exception within a year or 6 months

werty316

07-02-2006, 09:18 PM

Come price drop day the X2 3800+ is suppose to drop to I think $170 or so and the E6700 is what?,... $530 so the E6700 is actually more than double. E6600 is I think $370.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2800

mousiness

07-02-2006, 09:28 PM

damn thats some nasty burns in your pocket there, i expected more $400

vfrex

07-02-2006, 10:41 PM

For simplicity sake, can we keep any discussion about processors with regards to my build to my thread in general hardware?

Bio-Hazard

07-02-2006, 10:49 PM

are you sure its double of the x2? intel prices are really cheap and i expect this proocessor to be no exception within a year or 6 months
Can't guess prices 6 months to a year out, hell, there will be at least one, maybe 2 revisions out by that time...........:mrgreen:

Kougar

07-02-2006, 11:44 PM

When it comes down to it, this card isn't going to be long lived in my computer. I am buying a "low end" card for now, and will get a higher grade one after DX10 cards come out and become established. This needs to last me 12-16 months.

Well I'm not sure what your question is then, after sorting through all the extra random posts.

Since you stated this card is only meant to hold you over until you can purchase a DX10 card, then that is fine. Infact, if you don't plan to OC the card then you can forgot having to care about how hot the graphics card will get, because it will/or should have been designed to not overheat and start throttling. Since you plan on replacing it, running the card within specs without active cooling is fine, and there isn't any reason to spend more on cooling for it.

werty316

07-02-2006, 11:47 PM

Well I'm not sure what your question is then, after sorting through all the extra random posts.

Since you stated this card is only meant to hold you over until you can purchase a DX10 card, then that is fine. Infact, if you don't plan to OC the card then you can forgot having to care about how hot the graphics card will get, because it will/or should have been designed to not overheat and start throttling. Since you plan on replacing it, running the card within specs without active cooling is fine, and there isn't any reason to spend more on cooling for it.

:lol: problem solved ;)

vfrex

07-03-2006, 12:05 AM

werty316

07-03-2006, 12:43 AM

Don't expect extreme frames with max detail and high resolution when gaming til then.

7300GT Review (http://www.ngohq.com/home.php?page=articles&go=page6&arc_id=86)

vfrex

07-03-2006, 12:48 AM

http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=564&p=0

I think it is an acceptable tradeoff of $/performance.

werty316

07-03-2006, 04:44 AM

For now its ok but in no time at all it won't be because its a budget card.

Das Capitolin

07-03-2006, 05:05 AM

I won't be in a rush to get rid of the card if it can perform adequately. If modest overclocking can extend the life of the card by 6 months at the cost of rigging a bit of QUIET active cooling to it, it might be worth it.

Again, I completely recommend the NV/ATI Silencer series. Huge cooling performance with very little noise, and all heat is is drawn outside the case which lets you further overclock CPU and VPU.

vfrex

07-03-2006, 12:23 PM

How hard is installation? I've always been a bit hesitant to mess around with graphics cards.

Kougar

07-03-2006, 01:24 PM

http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=564&p=0

I think it is an acceptable tradeoff of $/performance.

Hm, better performance (And OCing) than I would have expected... I would have previously recommended the 7600GS card. However the 7600GS is the same as a 7300GT but with higher clocks and a higher price to match... Good find!

As far as installation, mostly you just need to carefully remove the current heatsink, very carefully clean the GPU core itself of any previously used thermal compound, carefully apply your own compound according to it's instructions, and carefully attach the new cooler in the same holes the old one used. The most tricky part should just be getting the original cooler off, but that particular one looks easy enough...

Okay, I take that back! I have no bloody clue there existed so many NV/ATI Arctic Cooling Silencers, despite reading about them in every single GPU cooler review! http://www.arctic-cooling.com/vga1.php (http://www.arctic-cooling.com/vga1.php) They do not list anything compatible with 7300 or 7600 model cards, despite that full page of listings.

Honestly I would not recommend spending the money on aftermarket cooling. You can keep your warranty and save money both by jury-rigging a slow rpm 120mm fan to blow air into that heatsink, and that should be all you would need for OCing that card. :) I have seen devices that basically do what Werty has done with his own jury-rigged card, however I'd just follow his example... Having the fan be speed adjustible via the motherboard or a fan with a switch might be good though if you might find yourself playing a game for an hour on high OCs.

vfrex

07-03-2006, 03:05 PM

What I really wanted was Gigabyte's version of the 7300GT.

http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=562&p=0

It seems to be pretty smoking with the overclock. However, it's now been nearly 3 weeks since that review, and the card doesn't seem to be sold anywhere in the US. That original legionhardware review of the reference board is enough to sell me though.

I was originally going to get the eVGA 7600GS as it was $99 after a mail in rebate. This 7300GT seems like a better value though, especially for a card that will be replaced in a year or so.

BTW, is it possible to dynamically overclock NVIDIA cards? Overclock when being heavily used, throttle if overheating, underclock when not being used?

Kougar

07-03-2006, 03:19 PM

Aye, I agree the 7300GT is a better value for what you intend to do with it. Although when it comes to overclocking, keep in mine many companies love to send in the cream of the crop for reviews. Even if you bought the same exact model Gigabyte card it may not OC quite that well... At least that's my thoughts on the matter. Might be a few reviews with the XFX part floating around that might show what it can do?

As for your question, I know ATI Tool (http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/259) lets you do most of that, however I don't know if the latest Beta build will offer the full range of functions for a nVidia card or not. That new build of RivaTunrer (http://www.guru3d.com/rivatuner/) might be what you are looking for as well, but I haven't used it except once, on an older version. Since this is an XFX forum I'm sure someone else can say with definite certainty though :)

mousiness

07-03-2006, 03:19 PM

vfrex

07-03-2006, 03:21 PM

I don't know what you're talking about?

mousiness

07-03-2006, 03:34 PM

i cant explain this unless im actually talking, or is it that im half asleep lol :confused:

vfrex

07-03-2006, 03:39 PM

Well, I could go to the chat if you want. Or, you could start by telling me if you're referring to my choice of video card or processor.

mousiness

07-03-2006, 03:42 PM

oh, nevermind i posted this in this forum insted of the other post you posted about your pc specs ill explain there

werty316

07-03-2006, 06:11 PM

whats a few bucks gonna do for that card? you shouldve gotten good parts in raange of your budget from the start, now youre regretting it because what you have done here is a huge mistake, no offense, oh well we all learn from our mistakes like me, and BTW silent pc's are never ever cheap, to be quiet you have to pay $$$.

Sticking with the 7300GT is good enough and in the future he can get a faster card in a year like he said. The 7300GT performs quite well compared to the 7600GT. It would be better to get a cheap card now and see how DX10 hardware is when released.

mousiness

07-03-2006, 09:17 PM

theyre making such a hype over dx10 and in the end i bet it wont even be that big

vfrex

07-03-2006, 09:29 PM

If it isn't, maybe OpenGL will get a boost.

werty316

07-03-2006, 09:48 PM

theyre making such a hype over dx10 and in the end i bet it wont even be that big

Have you seen the videos of Crysis? It looks damn sweet. DX10 better not bomb.

Kougar

07-04-2006, 02:23 AM

theyre making such a hype over dx10 and in the end i bet it wont even be that big

Mousiness, I already posted an article on DX10 last month to which you replied too... DX9 -> DX10 will not be a small thing, regardless of whether it meets expectations or not. Which might take a good while to ascertain, as the game developers will have some completely new things they need to program for now to make full use of DX10..

This is a pretty brief article on it, but it's the only one I remember offhand at the moment, but I've seen others...http://www.driverheaven.net/articles/dx10/ (http://www.driverheaven.net/articles/dx10/)