Colour corruption in TR:Legend with Catalyst 6.4 and up.

[Unbornchild]

I saw: This forum does get visited by ATI personal from time to time.That's good to know, because i sent my complaint via the ATI support feedback form, yet no result sofar!

I am still using Catalyst 6.3 because later versions produce a colour corruption in Tomb Raider Legend: charcoal black surfaces on the rocky ground where Lara walks in the first level Bolivia. Haven't checked later levels, this is bad enough.
Pictures.
The first one is posted by a member on the Tombraiderchronicles.com forum where i moderate in Tech Support: http://www.bucklescomic.com/other/trl_360vsPC.jpg

He compared XBox360 to PC Next Gen. The black surface struck me. I didn't have that. It turned out he had installed Catalyst 6.4, while i still had 6.3.
So i installed Cat 6.4 and got that ugly blackness too.

I added my picture:

http://www.jozefdekkers.nl/Trforum/stain-on-rock.jpg

That triangle shaped black stain should NOT be there!!!

So. When Cat 6.5 was released, i immediately tried it, but was very disappointed to find that nothing had been done to correct it.
Now with Cat 6.6 i don't even try, just read the release notes and no mention of this.

ATI guys: PLEASE do something about that! I have sent you feedback!

My PC:
XP Home SP2
Pentium 650 @ 3.78 Ghz / FSB 888 Mhz
ASUS P5AD2-E Premium / Intel i925X chipset
2 GB PC 5300 DDR2 RAM @ 667 Mhz in Dual Channel
ATI Radeon X1900XT / 512 MB
Creative X-Fi Platinum
2 x 250GB WD SATA-150
Coolermaster Realpower 550 W
Logitech G7
EIZO T965 21" @ 1600x1200 / 85 Hz

[werty316]

I guess not all drivers can be perfect adn you'll have to use an older version till then. Hopefully ATI will help you out.

[Unbornchild]

I do realise not all drivers can be perfect. I deeply respect programmers! I myself am no programmer, i have no idea, but would be curious to get a glimpse (if possible) why a later version than 6.3 could suddenly show this 'artifact'.

Anyway, bottomline is that i -as a user- just will wait untill this critical issue is resolved.
Recently installed Quake4. In recent ATI release notes, there is mentioning of issues resolved in Cat 6.6 for that game, but that's the same message as exists in the release notes for Cat 6.3 to 6.5 as well, and so far the game is running very much OK! So i keep with 6.3, waiting patiently for a Cat update that will include a Legend fix.

[Kougar]

Hello, and welcome to the forums Unbornchild! :)

It may just be me, however that black "stain" as you call it appears to be intentionally rendered there as a shadow, perhaps from an overhanging cliff since it looks like this was taken in a canyon?

A quick way to find out if that "stain" is supposed to be there would be to disable game shadows, if your game supports this option. If I'm right that stain will then go away, and it can be inferred that it was just a somewhat poorly rendered game shadow. :)

[Unbornchild]

To try out your tip, i have to change to newer driverversion right now. Be back later.

Note: if it works, the solution would rob me of realtime shadows overall, which i would not like! Besides, the fully black rock surface does not seem to be a shadow from any object around.

Anyway, i'll try and post the result.

[Unbornchild]

Indeed: disabling shadows make the stains disappear! Screenshots following. :grin:

This isn't a real solution though...

[Unbornchild]

As already posted, the stains disappear when shadows are disabled. :)

http://www.jozefdekkers.nl/Trforum/Legend/legend-blackstainissue-noshadows.jpg

http://www.jozefdekkers.nl/Trforum/Legend/legend-blackstainissue-noshadows2.jpg

Of course this is no real solution for us users because i want to keep the shadows ingame, and all works fine in Cat 6.3 (and Legend patch 1.2 installed of course).
But hopefully this little test can be of help to the ATI guys. :)

Tanks Kougar for the suggestion!

[werty316]

What Catalyst are you using now?

[Unbornchild]

Still using Cat 6.6, exploring environments, full of doubts... On the one hand seeing that you, Kougar, might be totally right with suggestion that shadows are rather meant the way as shown in recent Catalyst.... on the other, when i see the situation as in following picture (with shadows disabled in game's Options)...:

http://www.jozefdekkers.nl/Trforum/Legend/legend-hmm6.jpg

shadows enabled in game's Options:

http://www.jozefdekkers.nl/Trforum/Legend/legend-hmm7.jpg

...shadow on Lara's body absolutely not corresponding with shadow on environment. :confused:

[Unbornchild]

Since Kougar's comment, i am seeing more clearly it must be Legend engine rather than ATI drivers... there is something very inconsistant here, it seems ATI does its best to translate what the game orders. In Cat 6.3, ATI leaves the surface clear. From Cat 6.4 and up, ATI understands that there is supposed to be a shadow on the ground. However it does not correspond with the lighting cast on the character.
Here is a conflict between lighting on character and lighting in environment. Not ATI's fault. I will keep Cat 6.6 and see how it looks in further levels.

http://www.jozefdekkers.nl/Trforum/Legend/legend-hmm8.jpg

Catalyst 6.6, Legend options > Shadows enabled.

I am glad i posted this here and got your comments.

[Kougar]

Since Kougar's comment, i am seeing more clearly it must be Legend engine rather than ATI drivers... there is something very inconsistant here, it seems ATI does its best to translate what the game orders. In Cat 6.3, ATI leaves the surface clear. From Cat 6.4 and up, ATI understands that there is supposed to be a shadow on the ground. However it does not correspond with the lighting cast on the character.
Here is a conflict between lighting on character and lighting in environment. Not ATI's fault. I will keep Cat 6.6 and see how it looks in further levels.

Catalyst 6.6, Legend options > Shadows enabled.

I am glad i posted this here and got your comments.

Well, I got the idea from hearing something similar about another game awhile back (I forget which). Unfortunately you are very right, the game is what orders the driver to render "x" object, be it a shadow or a game character. This is partly why games can look different with ATI vs nVidia drivers...

As for Laura Croft not showing any shadows, that is simply how the game was done. I've never seen a screenshot of that game with her showing a shadow, even with HDR on and her standing in complete gloom. I guess the game developers thought it'd be wrong to hide Laura Croft behind shadows or something... :wink:

I do not know, but have you attempted to enable HDR with shadows on? HDR seems to turn everything pretty dark and impossible to see with this particular game, so it might help blend the shadows in better... ;)

Otherwise yes, you are right in that there isn't really a "fix" to this since it is how the game was designed. I'd still try using HDR, if your computer is able to adequately support it. :)

[mousiness]

consoles do not have this problem unless the software they originally installed was bad, i say contact ATi directly for a solution because there are game glitches that have these kinds of sysmptoms, INTEL for instance has an integrated drivcer problem-solving list of games that are known to have problems, maybe theres a list for ATi card problems too

[Kougar]

consoles do not have this problem unless the software they originally installed was bad, i say contact ATi directly for a solution because there are game glitches that have these kinds of sysmptoms, INTEL for instance has an integrated drivcer problem-solving list of games that are known to have problems, maybe theres a list for ATi card problems too

Consoles usually don't have the problem because the game is coded exactly for the hardware being used. Secondly though, console games lack many of the extra eye-candy options a PC can offer, such as HDR or higher levels of detail and shadows, not to mention higher AntiAliasing and Antistropic Filtering settings... assuming the PC hardware is up to it, that is.

[Unbornchild]

As for Laura Croft not showing any shadows, that is simply how the game was done. I've never seen a screenshot of that game with her showing a shadow, even with HDR on and her standing in complete gloom. I guess the game developers thought it'd be wrong to hide Laura Croft behind shadows or something...
Hmm?! :confused: Where did you read me saying Lara has no shadows? She has shadows, and they are generally very good as well (except being low resolution at times).

The problem was, that on certain spots Cat 6.3 renders lighted ground, while Cat 6.4 and up renders the same spots as in dark shadow.
Well, because those darknesses appear to be too black i could not believe they were MEANT as shadows. You see, they look unbalanced with the environment... they look as painted black instead of natural shadows. :(

Your tip ("disable shadows and see if the black stains disappear") proves that i was thinking wrongly, and that Catalyst 6.4 and up are more 'correct' than version 6.3. But for some reason the shadows on those spots are over-exaggerated. :(

[Unbornchild]

I do not know, but have you attempted to enable HDR with shadows on? HDR seems to turn everything pretty dark and impossible to see with this particular game, so it might help blend the shadows in better...

Otherwise yes, you are right in that there isn't really a "fix" to this since it is how the game was designed. I'd still try using HDR, if your computer is able to adequately support it.
I think Legend next generation mode IS making use of HDR. And my X1900XT does very well know how to run HDR, in Half-Life2, NFSMW, not sure if it is used in F.E.A.R. cuz i only played level 1 yet...

I have my ATI control center settings at default (except the Overdrive overclock of course).

I don't know if you are familiar with Tomb Raider: Legend, do you play that game yourself?

[Das Capitolin]

I think Legend next generation mode IS making use of HDR. And my X1900XT does very well know how to run HDR, in Half-Life2, NFSMW, not sure if it is used in F.E.A.R. cuz i only played level 1 yet...

I have my ATI control center settings at default (except the Overdrive overclock of course).

I don't know if you are familiar with Tomb Raider: Legend, do you play that game yourself?

Legend NG does incorporate HDR if the video adapter supports it.
FEAR does not, and has no support for it.
Tomb Raider: Legend does support it, but the reviews I have seen have shown mixed results.

[mousiness]

Consoles usually don't have the problem because the game is coded exactly for the hardware being used. Secondly though, console games lack many of the extra eye-candy options a PC can offer, such as HDR or higher levels of detail and shadows, not to mention higher AntiAliasing and Antistropic Filtering settings... assuming the PC hardware is up to it, that is.
not all people can afford a 7800 series and up card though and many people just dont bother

[Unbornchild]

not all people can afford a 7800 series and up card though and many people just dont botherOk but this thread is started by someone (me! ;-) ) who HAS a X1900XT and DOES bother. The game developers DO bother, the drivers programmers DO bother. I hope, that is... :wink:

[werty316]

Games are never perfect so you either live with the bugs or wait for patches and/or new drivers.

[Unbornchild]

I know, and i do.
You're not suggesting it's wrong to discuss findings are you. :wink:

In fact, that's what forums are for in the first place!

[Kougar]

I think Legend next generation mode IS making use of HDR. And my X1900XT does very well know how to run HDR, in Half-Life2, NFSMW, not sure if it is used in F.E.A.R. cuz i only played level 1 yet...

I have my ATI control center settings at default (except the Overdrive overclock of course).

I don't know if you are familiar with Tomb Raider: Legend, do you play that game yourself?

Nope, I don't own it nor have once played Tomb Raider, just speaking from all of the screenshots and brief snippets I've read about it :)

I agree that the shadows could have been much better rendered... However when I mentioned Laura not having shadows, I was directly recalling a few shots where she was in complete gloom, but appeared to be almost glowing like a light bulb because she was so brightly "lit" in such darkned backdrops or rooms... I believe those were the same screenshots with HDR enabled, come to think of it. ;)

[Unbornchild]

I may hope the ATI guys visiting here are awake enough to know Legend??:confused: