Ram for new conroe

[ToXic_WaSTe]

I have a hard time choosing what memory modules a want to buy for my new conroe CPU. I am buying my rig in August but will postpone it if necessary Any help would be great...

Here they are

OCZ VX2 DDR2 / PC2-8000 / 1000 MHz / Titanium Alpha / Voltage eXtreme 2 / [4-4-4-15]


Corsair XMS2 DDR2 / TWIN2X2048-8500C5 / 1066MHz / EPP / [5-5-5-15]


Corsair XMS2 DDR2 XPERT / TWIN2XP2048-6400C4 / 800MHz / EPP / [4-4-4-12]


Mushkin Performance DDR2 / REDLINE XP2-8000 / 1000MHz / [4-5-4-11]


Thx

[Scott Sherman]

The big question is do you plan on overclocking? If you do I would go with the memory rated higher than the 6400. I use the Corsair 8500 on my system and I am currently running it at 1066MHz.

[ToXic_WaSTe]

I plan on running at least 1066Mhz, but i am a RAM OC newb, so any help would be great.

[Das Capitolin]

I plan on running at least 1066Mhz, but i am a RAM OC newb, so any help would be great.

Then the Corsair XMS2 DDR2 / TWIN2X2048-8500C5 / 1066MHz / EPP / [5-5-5-15] would clearly be the best choice for you among your choices.

[Kougar]

Well, you should be happy to hear Intel's new chip isn't picky about having fast timings, unlike AMD's CPU's that require them. The performance differences between 3-3-4-8, 4-4-4-12, and 5-5-5-15 were neglible. Infact they are so nonexistant I'm not sure if I can believe them... but the info is out there. http://www.tbreak.com/reviews/article.php?cat=cpu&id=456&pagenumber=2 (http://www.tbreak.com/reviews/article.php?cat=cpu&id=456&pagenumber=2)

You won't see anything from AMD like this... ;) I plan to skimp on the ram and buy the cheapest common denominator 2x1gb RAM, and put the saved money elsewhere into the build... you'll get more results that way :)

[werty316]

Since you said you are a noob at OC'ing I would also go for the XMS2.
Corsair XMS2 DDR2 / TWIN2X2048-8500C5 / 1066MHz / EPP / [5-5-5-15]

I don't really care for highperformance RAM also. I usually get the cheapest ram but not "value" ram unless I can win some expensive ram :P

[ToXic_WaSTe]

Thanks for the replys, I will go with the corsair even though i've heard the mushkin overclock like crazy.

I may be a RAM OC newb but thats why i wish to learn. But if timings dont matter i will go for the cheaper ram, which ever that is:s Anyone know of a RAM overclock tutorial?

--EDIT-- But should i go with the 1066Mhz even though i can probably reach the same speed with some cheaper 6400 ram?? --EDIT--

[werty316]

I used to have a really good OC'ing guide but I accidently delete my FF bookmarks so its lost to never be found again but heres a basic article I found: http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/152

Basically its loosen ram timings to get highest speed while adjusting RAM voltage.

[ToXic_WaSTe]

Awesome thanks, What about the edit... ? --EDIT-- But should i go with the 1066Mhz even though i can probably reach the same speed with some cheaper 6400 ram?? --EDIT--

[werty316]

In that case if you want to try overclocking go with the PC6400 instead of more expensive PC8000/PC8500 memory. I only suggested the PC8500 memory because you said you a new to overclock but since you want to dab into overclock the PC6400 memory should be fine but I am nost sure if you can get PC6400 to PC8500 speeds. I have read a view reviews of the XMS2 PC6400 Pro sticks reach close to 900MHz but not over 1000MHz.

[ToXic_WaSTe]

So if i want to go 1066Mhz with cheaper Ram whick should i pick(doesnt have to be on the list) ?

[werty316]

Get PC2-8000 memory then.

[ToXic_WaSTe]

Any suggestions, Ram is always the hardewst to chose for me...:S

[werty316]

The ones you listed on the first page are fine.

[ToXic_WaSTe]

K thanks:P Are there any other ram's that are cheaper and will suit me... BTW how can i close this topic?

[werty316]

Don't really expect to find any cheap PC2-8000 sticks. You can get some cheap PC2-6400 sticks. Since you live in overseas I am sure what etailer stores are based out of Europe.
Only mods can close a topic.

[ToXic_WaSTe]

Okay, thanks for that.. But they would only clock to 1000 if im lucky?? maybe is should just go with the mushkin, they run 1000mhz and are good overclockers... thanks for the help...

[Kougar]

Well to muddle your question more, ATI's RD600 chipset uses an asynchronus memory controller... therefore CPU:DRAM ratios are not needed, and overclocking of the ram isn't needed either. While this sounds amazing, it's only on paper for the moment until around September...

To try and unmuddle it some, their recommendations for the 1066mhz Corsair RAM look good, and if you plan on using nVidia's 590SLI you can make use of the EPP support. But I don't think $460 for 2x1gb of RAM is worth it for most people. You'd get much better performance spending that kind of money on your GPU or CPU or both.

I'd suggest finding some cheap $150 to $200 2x1gb DDR2-800 speed RAM, and doing some research to ensure people are able to reach higher speeds with it on loose timings and higher voltages... You should buy some RAM with at least some OCing headroom, such as DDR2-800 RAM that can attain DDR2-900 or 950 speeds with some extra voltage and relaxed timings.

Edit: For Intel systems there is a CPU:DRAM ratio that lets you overclock the CPU without overclocking the memory. This does incur a small performance hit, but it's small and lets you use whatever kind of RAM you want. Core 2 Duo uses a 1066FSB, so buying 1066mhz DDR2 RAM and running in a 1:1 ratio would definitely help raise performance, but it won't amount to massive gains. EDIT: This is wrong! :P

That said, if you plan to OC your Core 2 Duo then buying 1066FSB RAM is pointless, because the RAM will not match the overclock you can attain on your CPU and you will be forced to use a non-1:1 ratio regardless of the RAM you buy. DDR2 tops out around DDR2-1100 speeds.

Edit: Okay, I goofed up and at least some of this and previously made posts are incorrect... So skip 'em ;)

[ToXic_WaSTe]

That is truly a mess, and doesnt sound real. But if it is true then its all about high frequncies, but the 965 chipset come out first so it dosnt matter right now,, mushkin will still do the job.

[Kougar]

Well, yeah I messed up your quest for a simple clean answer I guess... :mrgreen:

Muskin is a good (And safe) brand that doesn't cherry pick or outright fabricate their memory's capabilities like OCZ still does.

I didn't give this enough thought else I would have simply said so in my first posting to your thread... But once you throw overclocking into the mix then there is no reason to try and match the CPU/DRAM speeds as it just won't happen any longer. Anything DDR2-800 will work just fine, and I'm seeing 2x 1gb packs of this type of ram for as low as $150 right now, although my experience with G.Skill hasn't been pretty so I won't go there. :roll:

I think Werty and I are in the same boat, I can't find a link to an article that thoroughly explains overclocking on an Intel platform that I learned from... when I find it or another good article on it I will post it here. :)

[ToXic_WaSTe]

Well, yeah I messed up your quest for a simple clean answer I guess... :mrgreen:

Muskin is a good (And safe) brand that doesn't cherry pick or outright fabricate their memory's capabilities like OCZ still does.

I didn't give this enough thought else I would have simply said so in my first posting to your thread... But once you throw overclocking into the mix then there is no reason to try and match the CPU/DRAM speeds as it just won't happen any longer. Anything DDR2-800 will work just fine, and I'm seeing 2x 1gb packs of this type of ram for as low as $150 right now, although my experience with G.Skill hasn't been pretty so I won't go there. :roll:

I think Werty and I are in the same boat, I can't find a link to an article that thoroughly explains overclocking on an Intel platform that I learned from... when I find it or another good article on it I will post it here. :)


THX, can you link to the $150 pack plz.

[werty316]

Check Newegg.com but it won't matter since you don't live in the US and Newegg only ships within the United States and to Puerto Rico.

DDR2-800
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Order=PRICE&Page=1&N=2000170147+1052308477+1052416064&Submit=ENE&Nty=1&SubCategory=147

[ToXic_WaSTe]

Thx, ill have a freinds ship it to me. But might go with the Muskin redline after checking newegg it seems there is a 75$ rebate. I read the Bjorn3d take on these, and they still seem like the best choice, thx for your help, will probably need your help with some OC on these later.

[GIBSON]

That said, if you plan to OC your Core 2 Duo then buying 1066FSB RAM is pointless, because the RAM will not match the overclock you can attain on your CPU and you will be forced to use a non-1:1 ratio regardless of the RAM you buy. DDR2 tops out around DDR2-1100 speeds.
Wouldn't buying 1066fsb ram have a point when you are able to overclock your core 2 duo to a speed at which the ratio allows the ram to run at it's full 1066mhz speed. (where you would have to select another ratio if you were to have slower ram) This should have a performance impact, or am i that much wrong?

[werty316]

That if you can have a high enough OC to reach 1066MHz because the Conroe supports DDR2-800 memory so the only thing hold you back is the CPU and how far you can OC it to reach a 1:1 so that the memory is running at its rated speed of 1066MHz.

[GIBSON]

That if you can have a high enough OC to reach 1066MHz because the Conroe supports DDR2-800 memory so the only thing hold you back is the CPU and how far you can OC it to reach a 1:1 so that the memory is running at its rated speed of 1066MHz.
Er, just a few posts back Kougar mentioned core 2 duo has a 1066mhz FSB. What I meant is that when you OC it you'll eventually get to a speed at which you can use a divider which yields a faster speed for your ram than DDR800 can support, but which the 1066ram can support. This would sure give some extra performance to the system with the 1066 ram?

[ToXic_WaSTe]

Er, just a few posts back Kougar mentioned core 2 duo has a 1066mhz FSB. What I meant is that when you OC it you'll eventually get to a speed at which you can use a divider which yields a faster speed for your ram than DDR800 can support, but which the 1066ram can support. This would sure give some extra performance to the system with the 1066 ram?

Gotcha, maybe everyone is confusing everyone else. Just needed to know which ram to buy for my new conroe system and which OC'ed the best.. Lets stick to the topic, shall we?

[werty316]

Core2Duo has a 1066FSB but supports upto DDR2-800. If you want used DDR2-1066 memory you'll have to OC it to get to 1066MHz as the board will downclock it to DDR2-800 speeds.

Its like on a S939 rig where it supports DDR400; when you use DDR500 mempoy, the board will downclock the memory to DDR400 since DDR400 is the fastest speed supported. Only way to use the rated speed of DDR500 memory is to OC it to DDR500. Just because the FSB supports 1066MHz doesn't mean it supports DDR2-1066 memory.

[ToXic_WaSTe]

Core2Duo has a 1066FSB but supports upto DDR2-800. If you want used DDR2-1066 memory you'll have to OC it to get to 1066MHz as the board will downclock it to DDR2-800 speeds.

Its like on a S939 rig where it supports DDR400; when you use DDR500 mempoy, the board will downclock the memory to DDR400 since DDR400 is the fastest speed supported. Only way to use the rated speed of DDR500 memory is to OC it to DDR500. Just because the FSB supports 1066MHz doesn't mean it supports DDR2-1066 memory.

THX werty, that i can understand... So the only reason making pc-8500 is if you want to OC ;-) or something, really cant see reasons for using 8500 anymore.. :S

[Kougar]

Okay, I really hate math. If I goof something obvious please be polite when you point me in the right direction...

To run a Core 2 Duo processor with a 1:1 ratio at stock speeds, you would have to buy DDR2-533mhz memory. Core 2 Duo has a 1066FSB QDR, so that is 266mhz. DDR2-533mhz memory is also 266mhz, so therefore a 1:1 ratio is possible.

DDR2-1066mhz /2 ='s 533mhz. So when overclocking to reach this, you must raise the 266mhz FSB to 533mhz... which translates into a quad-pumped total of 2132FSB. This has not happened yet, and the most extreme I have ever seen done was a 500FSB for a 2ghz front side bus using a dropped CPU multiplier. I think most overclockers will be fairly lucky to get past 400FSB, if that! ;)

So Gibson, if I did that right I'm afraid that idea wouldn't be possible... The quote below should help somewhat.

As you move up from DDR2-533 you will generally see real performance improvements with faster memory, up to and including the DDR2-800 standard. For more information on how DDR400 performance compares to DDR2 take a look at our AM2 DDR2 vs. 939 DDR Performance article. DDR2-800 is the fastest current standard - supported by both the new AMD AM2 processors and the upcoming Intel Core 2 Duo (Conroe). There are no industry-approved standards above DDR2-800, just as there were no JEDEC standards above DDR400, so memory speeds above DDR2-800 should be considered overclocking. We have not yet seen an AM2 motherboard with support for DDR2-1067, which will be the next standard speed, but we have seen a number of Intel motherboards that support the DDR2-1067 speed. With DDR2-800 an approved speed on the new processors and chipsets, it is likely just a matter of time until official DDR2-1067 support arrives. Source (http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2790)

And you will see better performance with DDR2-800 memory, as long as the timings are the same as the DDR2-667 memory. This goes especially for AMD processors that are far more sensitive to timings than memory bandwidth.

Edit: Sorry Toxic, didn't see your reply before I posted. Werty already posted the link to the G.Skill ram that was $150. I would definitely suggest to stick with Mushkin over G.Skill, simply because G.Skill may have good RAM, but it's extremely finicky which brands of motherboards it works smoothly with.

That Mushkin Redline stuff isn't cheap even with the MIR, but the timings don't look half bad... Good luck with it ;)

[GIBSON]

Okay, I really hate math. If I goof something obvious please be polite when you point me in the right direction...

To run a Core 2 Duo processor with a 1:1 ratio at stock speeds, you would have to buy DDR2-533mhz memory. Core 2 Duo has a 1066FSB QDR, so that is 266mhz. DDR2-533mhz memory is also 266mhz, so therefore a 1:1 ratio is possible.

DDR2-1066mhz /2 ='s 533mhz. So when overclocking to reach this, you must raise the 266mhz FSB to 533mhz... which translates into a quad-pumped total of 2132FSB. This has not happened yet, and the most extreme I have ever seen done was a 500FSB for a 2ghz front side bus using a dropped CPU multiplier. I think most overclockers will be fairly lucky to get past 400FSB, if that! ;)

So Gibson, if I did that right I'm afraid that idea wouldn't be possible... The quote below should help somewhat.



And you will see better performance with DDR2-800 memory, as long as the timings are the same as the DDR2-667 memory. This goes especially for AMD processors that are far more sensitive to timings than memory bandwidth.

Edit: Sorry Toxic, didn't see your reply before I posted. Werty already posted the link to the G.Skill ram that was $150. I would definitely suggest to stick with Mushkin over G.Skill, simply because G.Skill may have good RAM, but it's extremely finicky which brands of motherboards it works smoothly with.

That Mushkin Redline stuff isn't cheap even with the MIR, but the timings don't look half bad... Good luck with it ;)
Thanx, that clears things up pretty well, one thing though, I got this out of your older post:

Edit: For Intel systems there is a CPU:DRAM ratio that lets you overclock the CPU without overclocking the memory. This does incur a small performance hit, but it's small and lets you use whatever kind of RAM you want. Core 2 Duo uses a 1066FSB, so buying 1066mhz DDR2 RAM and running in a 1:1 ratio would definitely help raise performance, but it won't amount to massive gains.
Does this mean the bold part was incorrect? and about the piece you quoted, they write there are 1067 boards coming up, so DDR1067 will be supported eventually?

[werty316]

Bold means is correct or helps. As systems become faster and faster you can be sure DDR2-1066 will be supported in no time.

We have not yet seen an AM2 motherboard with support for DDR2-1067, which will be the next standard speed, but we have seen a number of Intel motherboards that support the DDR2-1067 speed. With DDR2-800 an approved speed on the new processors and chipsets, it is likely just a matter of time until official DDR2-1067 support arrives.
Source (http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2790)

[Kougar]

Yes, you are correct Gibson, the quote with the bold text that I made is wrong. ;) I googled a little this time to make sure I didn't pull any fuzzy math.

Every motherboard that supports Conroe will have to have a 1066FSB support. The only exception is the single 800mhz FSB Conroe-L that will be released next year. That should answer any FSB support related questions!

Since this is somewhat on topic, I'll do ahead and add it. By the same math in my last post, DDR2-800 RAM should actually be a good buy. When you overclock the stock 266mhz FSB of the Core 2 Duo, if you reach a 400FSB you will then be able to run with a 1:1 ratio using that memory. The big catch is that's going to be the far upper limit of most motherboards to attain that high a FSB, I wouldn't expect it from the vast majority of motherboards. 1500FSB QDR is about par, 1600 is really pushing it, and while anything higher could make use of memory rated above DDR2-800, you would need a fairly extreme setup to make use of it. DDR2-800 is 400mhz. The E6700 uses a CPU mutliplier of "10". So, a 400FSB*10='s 4ghz. So with a E6700, 400FSB will let you run your DDR2-800 memory at a 1:1 ratio... It's still to early to call it, but I don't plan to buy anything over DDR2-800 unless 4ghz is a common'y achieved OC!

Lets say you got Mushkin Redline DDR2-1000mhz memory and used a 1:1 ratio anyway. The system would then underclock the RAM to an effective DDr2-533mhz speed. As you OC the FSB higher the DRAM speed would also go up because ya just locked at a 1:1 ratio... But to run the RAM at the original 1000mhz speed you would need a 500mhzFSB (4x='s 2,000mhz) which for all intents and purposes will never happen as the CPU won't ever OC that far without dropping the multiplier on it, which undoes the entire point behind overclocking.

If you have anymore questions please make a thread and I'll find it, I think Toxic_Waste wants his thread back and I've muddled this one up badly... ;)

[ToXic_WaSTe]

If you have anymore questions please make a thread and I'll find it, I think Toxic_Waste wants his thread back and I've muddled this one up badly... ;)

Thx cougar, it would be nice to be able to understand your posts again..:-D
Havnt gotten around to reading the OC guide yet which probably would help.

So sticking with the mushkin what would you suggest i do for OC?

[werty316]

Its pretty basic, all you need to do is raise increase the FSB.

[ToXic_WaSTe]

Its pretty basic, all you need to do is raise increase the FSB.

No adjusting voltage or anyting else, should i just raise it 5mhz at a time?

[werty316]

When you hit a wall when increasing the FSB of course the next step is increasing the CPU voltage, chipest voltage, and memory voltage.
Increasing it at 5MHz is fine.

[ToXic_WaSTe]

When you hit a wall when increasing the FSB of course the next step is increasing the CPU voltage, chipest voltage, and memory voltage.
Increasing it at 5MHz is fine.

Think i will try that but dont know if i should mess with my voltage until my warrenty period has passed. I buy everything in the US and have to ship it back and forth so with be H**l to break anything. Maybe as i grow more confident with overclocking the rest of the system.. :P My friend has an old system which we can pratice on, so think that is a perfect way to get started with some RAM OC, THX

[werty316]

Why not as soon as you OC you void your warranty so increasing the voltages won't mattter. OC'ing a CPU isn't very risk as long as you use decent cooling and don't go overboard and try to get a high OC.

[Kougar]

Thx cougar, it would be nice to be able to understand your posts again..:-D
Havnt gotten around to reading the OC guide yet which probably would help.

So sticking with the mushkin what would you suggest i do for OC?

Well, you better be ready to do some math for your CPU:DRAM ratio so you can make sure you're OC isn't failing due to the RAM being run out of spec.

Since you are buying the Mushkin Reldine though, for a Core 2 Duo I would lock the system at a 1:1 rato at the rated timings, bump the FSB up to the magic number that when * with the CPU multiplier gives you a 3ghz chip. Then I'd slowly raise it in small increments like you suggested... Because otherwise you'll spend a fair while rebooting and checking before you hit a ceiling. ;)

An E6700 would need a FSB of 300 to reach 3ghz, and the E6600 will need a FSB of 333 to reach the same 3ghz. I expect you will find a small CPU voltage bump will be needed somewhere between 3.1ghz and 3.3ghz, mostly depending on how far down the binning process you buy your CPU.

When you find the highest stable OC, only then would I start lowering your timings on the RAM.

[werty316]

As long as you don't use a memory divider you should be fine.

Intel rigs OC more or less the same as AMD rigs right? Meaning as you increase the FSB, the memory speed increase at the same increment value.

[ToXic_WaSTe]

Why not as soon as you OC you void your warranty so increasing the voltages won't mattter. OC'ing a CPU isn't very risk as long as you use decent cooling and don't go overboard and try to get a high OC.

Well if you say so i might go ahead, bu under any circumstances i will wait until i get my water cooling. And post about some help, cause im probably hopeless:(

[werty316]

A novice like you dipping into WC'ing? You must be mad.

[ToXic_WaSTe]

A novice like you dipping into WC'ing? You must be mad.

Dont worry, I have my friend to help me, but he is on vacation for the next couple of weeks. But i OC my vid cards like mad so WC would be great.. But would like to get to know the basics with OC before he comes and helps me.-.

[Kougar]

As long as you don't use a memory divider you should be fine.

Intel rigs OC more or less the same as AMD rigs right? Meaning as you increase the FSB, the memory speed increase at the same increment value.

An Intel system always uses a memory divider, and usually it's not 1:1 anymore when you first get a new Intel system nowadays...

Intel rigs don't have to mess with the hypertransport multiplier, but unlike AMD rigs that simply have a CPU strap for the memory you get to instead play around with the preset/limited selection of memory ratios which will affect performance. Extreme overclocking might require a slight raising of the northbridge voltage, but both kinds of systems share that...

[GIBSON]

Since this is somewhat on topic, I'll do ahead and add it. By the same math in my last post, DDR2-800 RAM should actually be a good buy. When you overclock the stock 266mhz FSB of the Core 2 Duo, if you reach a 400FSB you will then be able to run with a 1:1 ratio using that memory. The big catch is that's going to be the far upper limit of most motherboards to attain that high a FSB, I wouldn't expect it from the vast majority of motherboards. 1500FSB QDR is about par, 1600 is really pushing it, and while anything higher could make use of memory rated above DDR2-800, you would need a fairly extreme setup to make use of it. DDR2-800 is 400mhz. The E6700 uses a CPU mutliplier of "10". So, a 400FSB*10='s 4ghz. So with a E6700, 400FSB will let you run your DDR2-800 memory at a 1:1 ratio... It's still to early to call it, but I don't plan to buy anything over DDR2-800 unless 4ghz is a common'y achieved OC!
Core2Duo reviews seem to give oc's on air around 4 Ghz, so it should certainly be possible to do so on water! I bet that would be a nice performing config :grin:

When you hit a wall when increasing the FSB of course the next step is increasing the CPU voltage, chipest voltage, and memory voltage.
Increasing it at 5MHz is fine.
I really don't see why you would up the chipset voltage, this shouldn't make any difference right? Chipset voltage usually isn't upped anywhere before you start cooling things with LN2 I think. ;-)

[Kougar]

At least in the past, you would want to up the northbridge voltage because raising the FSB would begin to run the Northbridge out of spec... notch the northbridge up and it often would give you a slightly higher FSB speed, or stabilize one you were at.

I agree though, this doesn't appear to be needed at all for the Core 2 Duo... :)

[GIBSON]

A novice like you dipping into WC'ing? You must be mad.
LOL, When I installed my wc-set I hadn't ever changed a heatsink on a cpu. As long as you're not a retard you should be OK ;-)

[werty316]

I don't recommend WC'ing to novices unless they get someone to help them and who knows what they are doing.

[GIBSON]

I don't recommend WC'ing to novices unless they get someone to help them and who knows what they are doing.
If you're smart enough to read a manual, IMHO, you're OK. However there seems to be a trend of people who know nothing about the subject not even caring to take a look at the manual. Then they wonder what they did wrong :mrgreen:

[werty316]

Novices in most times never "RTFM" :lol:

[ToXic_WaSTe]

I don't recommend WC'ing to novices unless they get someone to help them and who knows what they are doing.

I have good soldering skills and have no problem changing VGA cooler or CPU cooler, only thing is a bit of OC problems... So i doubt i will have any trouble installing WC8-)

[GIBSON]

I have good soldering skills and have no problem changing VGA cooler or CPU cooler, only thing is a bit of OC problems... So i doubt i will have any trouble installing WC8-)
Good thing you're good at soldering, you'll surely need that to connect your tubing in your wc! :mrgreen:

[ToXic_WaSTe]

Good thing you're good at soldering, you'll surely need that to connect your tubing in your wc! :mrgreen:

Just saying, I have no problem connecting WC kit and since i have good soldering skills and have change several VGA and CPU coolers and read a lot of instruktions on installing WC and will read the manual, I should have no problem. 8)

[werty316]

Reading an instruction manual is not the same as actually doing it.

Good thing you're good at soldering, you'll surely need that to connect your tubing in your wc! :mrgreen:
What does knowing how to solder have to do with WC kit?