Crashing and standby, possibly 9800 pro to blame

[A.T]

Hi, i'm currently having some serious issues with my PC at the moment, and I believe my graphics card is causing the problem.
When running a 3D application, I rarely get more than 10 minutes run time before either:
A. program is stopped by the JIT debugger (send error report dialog)
B. system crashes and reboots itself. No BSOD, just black screen, then reboot.
C. system suddenly goes into standby mode without provocation.

This has been happening for over a month, and I have updated my sound and video card drivers fully. When possible, I have also been sending error reports.
B. is the worst, as after the reboot, sometimes when windows has started I get a black screen with some small squares of colour at the top, each about 5 pixels wide. I have to hard reset my PC at this point. At other times after the crash/reboot, I can log in, but as soon as I do, the PC goes to standby.

From error reports, I am told that a device driver is to blame, but windows cannot identify it, and tells me i'm getting a stop error and a BSOD, but I never see a BSOD.
The in-game crashes seem to occur at points where memory is likely to be being shifted around (loading, resetting the level), so suggest that it's either a problem with the sound card, video card, or possibly to do with how memory is being allocated to standard RAM.
I updated my sound drivers, but it didn't help. I then deactivated all sound devices, which also didn't work. This means that the video card is likely to blame.
I downloaded ATI Catalyst 6.6 but it doesn't seem to have helped the issue. When I open Catalyst and click '3D', the preview window (usually renders a red car) crashes, and I get another send report dialog.

Later on today, I'm going to try reseating my cards and RAM, just in case that's the issue.

System information:
Custom build
Windows XP SP2 latest updates applied
AMD Athlon XP 3200+
Radeon 9800pro
Creative SB Audigy2 (WDM)

Hopefully someone here can help me with my problem, or point me in the right direction.
Thanks,
A.T

[GIBSON]

This seems fairly obvious, but have you checked the temps? A few days ago it was really hot here in belgium and I started having in-game artifacts and lag, went away when temps dropped again. Reading the other symptoms this is likely not the cause, but it can never hurt to check. Personally I'd just say your gfxcard is screwed.

[Das Capitolin]

Hi, i'm currently having some serious issues with my PC at the moment, and I believe my graphics card is causing the problem.
When running a 3D application, I rarely get more than 10 minutes run time before either:
A. program is stopped by the JIT debugger (send error report dialog)
B. system crashes and reboots itself. No BSOD, just black screen, then reboot.
C. system suddenly goes into standby mode without provocation.

This has been happening for over a month, and I have updated my sound and video card drivers fully. When possible, I have also been sending error reports.
B. is the worst, as after the reboot, sometimes when windows has started I get a black screen with some small squares of colour at the top, each about 5 pixels wide. I have to hard reset my PC at this point. At other times after the crash/reboot, I can log in, but as soon as I do, the PC goes to standby.

From error reports, I am told that a device driver is to blame, but windows cannot identify it, and tells me i'm getting a stop error and a BSOD, but I never see a BSOD.
The in-game crashes seem to occur at points where memory is likely to be being shifted around (loading, resetting the level), so suggest that it's either a problem with the sound card, video card, or possibly to do with how memory is being allocated to standard RAM.
I updated my sound drivers, but it didn't help. I then deactivated all sound devices, which also didn't work. This means that the video card is likely to blame.
I downloaded ATI Catalyst 6.6 but it doesn't seem to have helped the issue. When I open Catalyst and click '3D', the preview window (usually renders a red car) crashes, and I get another send report dialog.

Later on today, I'm going to try reseating my cards and RAM, just in case that's the issue.

System information:
Custom build
Windows XP SP2 latest updates applied
AMD Athlon XP 3200+
Radeon 9800pro
Creative SB Audigy2 (WDM)

Hopefully someone here can help me with my problem, or point me in the right direction.
Thanks,
A.T

THis sounds spot-on like a heat related issue. I have seen many GPU's work at or near the threshold, but sometimes in the summer time the temps kick up just enough to start causing crashes.

[ToXic_WaSTe]

Sounds like heat, but i would use CHKDSK and Defrag, update drivers and clean the registry. Just in case:P Always works for me, when something happens,,,

[A.T]

I think it probably is a heat/dust related issue, as it lasted a little longer after opening the case for a while and getting a cool breeze flowing through.
I'm going to find a fine paintbrush and give the components a clean and see how that helps.

If it is just a heat issue, how likely is it that the issue will return later on, even under cooler conditions?

[tomato]

I would advise to check all of your fans in your computer as well... back in the day, I had a buddy who was trying to "upgrade" :P to Win98... to no avail... systems crashes and/or failing to boot up... he tried various versions of Win98, (IE: upgrade, OEM, etc.) and finally ended up purchasing a retail version... with the same failed boot result. He took it into a computer shop, and all they had to go was replace the fan on his CPU! :P

Moral of the story: sometimes it's the most simple things that can cause the biggest problems :P

That said, where do you have the computer located? IE: a warmer area, basement, etc? With the case open, try running with a desktop fan blowing on your parts and see if there's any difference...

[A.T]

Ok, I dusted off the components and rebooted. The CPU temp was about 20C lower (from 66-46C). I tried Catalyst's demo, but that failed in the same way as before. At this point ATITool returned very few artifacts. After a decent game of CSS (which didn't crash), ATITool returned many more artifacts, but about 20% of what it was like before cleaning.
Cooling the system down certainly seems to help, but i'm not sure what to make of the Catalyst Demo crashing.

I'm going to defrag C: and see if that helps.

[werty316]

Could also try to do a fresh install on windows as it might help.

[Kougar]

ATI Tool should not be finding ANY artifacts, whatsoever. Even if a few games manage to run, at some point the artifacts will corrupt the drivers and bring your system to a halt the hard way. Once you see one artifact, they only increase in number until the system is fully reset.

If you are overclocking your 9800Pro then I suggest you reset it to stock and see if it is still gving you artifacts. Uninstalling ALL ATI and other previous GPU drivers you may preivously of had on your system, before installing a fresh copy of the current drivers may also help. Does ATI Tool tell you for GPU fan is running? And what are the temps on it?

[A.T]

I've never touched the clock settings on my card, so that I wouldn't get problems like this. Wishful thinking I suppose.
My 9800pro doesn't appear to have an LM63 chip, so I can't tell it's temperature.
I'll try and reset, then re-install the drivers from scratch and see if that helps.

[ToXic_WaSTe]

Wait you have a audigy 2... I had a related problem, I lost all sound and got the BSOD. Reinstalled my Audigy card and i havnt had the problem since.. But mine cut sound before crashing. Does yours do this?

[Das Capitolin]

Could also try to do a fresh install on windows as it might help.

I hate seeing rookie advice like this. It makes me wish I could delete posts.

Werty, he is suffering from a heat issue with his video card. He even confirmed this. Reinstalling Windows, while easy for me or possibly you, is not something everyone should be doing, and should be used as a VERY LAST RESORT.

Fortunatly, all he will need to do is make sure he doesn't overclock the card (9800's are already maxed out as it is), and get better cooling for his case.

[werty316]

hehe yeah I didn't feel like reading all the posts hehe

[ToXic_WaSTe]

Wait you have a audigy 2... I had a related problem, I lost all sound and got the BSOD. Reinstalled my Audigy card and i havnt had the problem since.. But mine cut sound before crashing. Does yours do this?

HEY, how about we all listen to someone who has tried this before... :lol:

Try it and see if it doesnt work? and lets all wait and see what results he gets.. HUH?

[Bio-Hazard]

Before reinstalling drivers, download Driver Cleaner and run it to be sure all old drivers have been properly removed.

http://www.drivercleaner.net/

[ToXic_WaSTe]

Before reinstalling drivers, download Driver Cleaner and run it to be sure all old drivers have been properly removed.

http://www.drivercleaner.net/

AND a registry cleaner, works wonders...

[Das Capitolin]

HEY, how about we all listen to someone who has tried this before... :lol:

Try it and see if it doesnt work? and lets all wait and see what results he gets.. HUH?

How about reading his posts, instead of jumping on the "Reply" button like a post whore!

He is not getting BSOD, and his results are consistant with GPU overheating. I see it quite often; as I do this for a living, and it is summer time so I see a lot of the higher end systems coming up with problems like this.

Registry Cleaners? Save your kiddie-ware advice for friends and family. Oh- and posts under about two sentences will probably not get counted for this months contest.

[GIBSON]

If you keep on getting problems, I'd suggest you underclock your card until the end of the summer. Be sure to try out removing your drivers and getting the newest ones as other people mentioned. I had an artifacts problem before and completely deleting current drivers and afterwards installing new ones fixed that one for me.

[ToXic_WaSTe]

How about reading his posts, instead of jumping on the "Reply" button like a post whore!

He is not getting BSOD, and his results are consistant with GPU overheating. I see it quite often; as I do this for a living, and it is summer time so I see a lot of the higher end systems coming up with problems like this.

Registry Cleaners? Save your kiddie-ware advice for friends and family. Oh- and posts under about two sentences will probably not get counted for this months contest.

okay

lol.
lol.
lol.
lol.
lol.

Suggested something, and when windows says he gets BSOD then there might be something about it,, was a freakin suggestion, it worked for me so might work for him, lol

[Bio-Hazard]

I've never had any sort of heat issues with my old 9800Pro, even when OC'd past XT speeds with stock cooling. If there's halfway good airflow in the case, heat shouldn't be a issue even at warmer summer temps, it's been almost a 100F here already this year.

[Das Capitolin]

If you keep on getting problems, I'd suggest you underclock your card until the end of the summer. Be sure to try out removing your drivers and getting the newest ones as other people mentioned. I had an artifacts problem before and completely deleting current drivers and afterwards installing new ones fixed that one for me.

I would suggest underclocking only after making sure every possible component has been cleaned off and all of the fans are functioning well and clean. Compressed air would be helpful.

Updating to the latest ATI 6.6 driver may help keep the temp down to a very minor degree, as drivers for video cards occasionally help make the GPU run more efficiently.

[ToXic_WaSTe]

I've never had any sort of heat issues with my old 9800Pro, even when OC'd past XT speeds with stock cooling. If there's halfway good airflow in the case, heat shouldn't be a issue even at warmer summer temps, it's been almost a 100F here already this year.

HA, same here so might be something elese.. Therefore my suggestion with the Sound card. Who knows it might just work, and if it doesnt then at least he cleaned his computer and updated his drivers, eh?

[Bio-Hazard]

I'd go backwards and try the 5.11 cats without the CCC crap, I got the best performance out of those, as a matter of fact, they the ones I'm still using to this day...........;)

[Bio-Hazard]

I was just remembering that I had some strange video issues with ATi cards and artifacting and the like with weak/bad ram, just a thought. You might want to try stressing your ram a bit and run it through MemTest, it couldn't hurt and you might just find your problem.

[Das Capitolin]

I've never had any sort of heat issues with my old 9800Pro, even when OC'd past XT speeds with stock cooling. If there's halfway good airflow in the case, heat shouldn't be a issue even at warmer summer temps, it's been almost a 100F here already this year.

I have the 9800XT in my HTPC system, and it stays down around 40c. The temps he was mentioning (prior to cleaning) seem very high. The post-cleaning temps are better.

Ok, I dusted off the components and rebooted. The CPU temp was about 20C lower (from 66-46C). I tried Catalyst's demo, but that failed in the same way as before. At this point ATITool returned very few artifacts. After a decent game of CSS (which didn't crash), ATITool returned many more artifacts, but about 20% of what it was like before cleaning.
Cooling the system down certainly seems to help, but i'm not sure what to make of the Catalyst Demo crashing.

66c is pretty high, especially for that card.

I would bet money that it's not his frigging sound card.

[GIBSON]

I have the 9800XT in my HTPC system, and it stays down around 40c. The temps he was mentioning (prior to cleaning) seem very high. The post-cleaning temps are better.



66c is pretty high, especially for that card.

I would bet money that it's not his frigging sound card.
Temps he posted are for his CPU NOT his GPU (hope the bold made that one clear :p) He mentioned his card did not have a temp sensor so he doesn't know temps of his radion 9800

[Bio-Hazard]

Those temps can't be from the card, it doesn't have HW monitoring, I think he was giving CPU temp, but that's even worse. 70C it should be shutting down if he has that set in his bios.

OOPs, posted that about the same time as you, sorry.

[GIBSON]

Those temps can't be from the card, it doesn't have HW monitoring, I think he was giving CPU temp, but that's even worse. 70C it should be shutting down if he has that set in his bios.

OOPs, posted that about the same time as you, sorry.
LOL, that's OK, anyhow, wouldn't 66°C be pretty acceptable if it had been his GPU temp? (I know mine runs around 60°)

[Kougar]

It's more of an acceptable temp for a GPU than a CPU, yes. But I wouldn't want my rig running that high regardless, if I could help it.

A.T., I would very much suggest you try Sbrehm's advice in his post regarding the drivercleaner program, before you try installing any sort of graphics drivers.

Also, what are you using to measure your CPU temp? Do you have any other temp readings? A very good program to use for this is http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php (http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php).

Also you didn't mention if you made sure the fan on your 9800Pro was still spinning? It may take a little work to find out, but I would definitely suggest physically checking to make sure the fan is still turning at full speed. Some of the older 9800's do have the fan bearings get old and fail, so the cards end up overheating.

[ToXic_WaSTe]

LOL, that's OK, anyhow, wouldn't 66°C be pretty acceptable if it had been his GPU temp? (I know mine runs around 60°)

Well i know some cards quit at 80° so 66 seems okay, my 9800 is 51 now but it isnt under load.

[Unbornchild]

Hopefully someone here can help me with my problem, or point me in the right direction.
Thanks,
A.THardware direction: You don't overclock, OK. At my place it is summer as well (between 22 and 32 degrees C). The higher temp causes lower CPU performance but no "crashing and standby" nor graphical glitches like you describe. I would look in the direction of your power supply unit.

Software direction:
Catalyst 6.3, i'm still finding this the most stable.
I have the same version running on a 9700Pro/Audigy2ZS and a X1900XT/X-Fi Platinum, no problems whatsoever.

[A.T]

Ok, I've re-installed the drivers, first to 5.11, then to 6.6 (both performed about the same). Things seem slightly improved, and it hasn't crashed on me yet, but that may be because i'm keeping the room cooler now. I'm still getting a fair number of artifacts after 10 seconds of ATI tool's 3D test. 3D Preview on catalyst appears to be back.
On the boot-up bios screen, I have some temp info which tells me CPU Temp: 66 but System Temp: 46. When I installed Motherboard Monitor, it is giving me 46 as the CPU temperature.

[A.T]

Well, since yesterday, I've had a couple of standbys and some game crashes, but no system crashes (yet).
MotherBoardMonitor gives me 46C before play and usually 49C when the game fails. If the CPU is 49C, that shouldn't crash it, but if the CPU really was 66C before hand, it's probably close to the 70C mark by the end of play.

Is the only solution to buy more cooling, or is there another alternative?

[tomato]

OK then, if you're still getting crashes, it would suggest a hardware problem...
- Did you purchase the video card brand new or used? Have you ever had any problems with it?
- What PSU are you using? Insufficient/bad power can cause a multitude of issues :(

[GIBSON]

You still don't know now if the card is overheating or not right?

[werty316]

Try installing another card if you have access to one and see if you get teh same results. If you do the card is probably bunk.

[A.T]

Ok, I replaced my radeon 9800 with an nvidia GeForce 2MX (only card I had spare). I booted up and ran ATI tool artifact scan (should work for nvidia cards so long as I don't try to overclock it, right?) I saw no artifacts after a minute of testing.
Played a short game of CSS, which ran fine, no crashes. MotherboardMonitor told me that my system temp is about 41C; 5C below the temp with the radeon.
As soon as I put the radeon back in, my system temp started rising to 46 again. I got a few artifacts on ATI tool as soon as the system booted (still quite cool).
The problem is definitely there only with the radeon, suggesting either that my card is broken, or the heat it gives off causes the crashes.

My system is in a Wave Master Cooler case, with an ATX dual fan power supply (the one that blows down through the PC, cooling the whole system). In total, there are 2 PSU fans, a CPU fan, a system fan and the radeon GPU fan. All are rotating correctly from what I could see.

The card was bought brand new in a powercolor bundle, but I don't have the reciept as it was almost 3 years ago.
Does anyone know if ATI or Powercolor do a 3-year warranty as standard, or am I going to have to find a new card?

[Das Capitolin]

Ok, I replaced my radeon 9800 with an nvidia GeForce 2MX (only card I had spare). I booted up and ran ATI tool artifact scan (should work for nvidia cards so long as I don't try to overclock it, right?) I saw no artifacts after a minute of testing.
Played a short game of CSS, which ran fine, no crashes. MotherboardMonitor told me that my system temp is about 41C; 5C below the temp with the radeon.
As soon as I put the radeon back in, my system temp started rising to 46 again. I got a few artifacts on ATI tool as soon as the system booted (still quite cool).
The problem is definitely there only with the radeon, suggesting either that my card is broken, or the heat it gives off causes the crashes.

My system is in a Wave Master Cooler case, with an ATX dual fan power supply (the one that blows down through the PC, cooling the whole system). In total, there are 2 PSU fans, a CPU fan, a system fan and the radeon GPU fan. All are rotating correctly from what I could see.

The card was bought brand new in a powercolor bundle, but I don't have the reciept as it was almost 3 years ago.
Does anyone know if ATI or Powercolor do a 3-year warranty as standard, or am I going to have to find a new card?

There are some great ATI Silcencers for the 9800 from Artic Cooling. I prefer this cooling solution because the heat is exhausted out of the case. And for reference, my slightly overclocked 9800XT runs at 42C under load with stock cooling. If your 9800 cannot run artifact free in a cool environment (like early morning), then it's time to replace the card, or spend the $20 to try cooling it even more with the ATI Silencer.

[werty316]

I don't think its worth getting an aftermarket cooler for the card as it looks like it is bad since the GF2 worked fine. As for the Powercolor warranty I think its a 2 year warranty based on the seria number but you could ask tech support at PowerColor website.
http://www.powercolor.com/global/main_support_warranty_rma.asp
http://www.powercolor.com/

[Kougar]

I have to agree, there is no point in getting an aftermarket cooler for your GPU when it's very likely damaged irreparably already. The money would be better spent going into a new card.

Honestly, unless you won't be able to upgrade to a PCIe machine sometime in the future I wouldn't even spend money on a different graphics card and just use the GeforceMX card you have.

[ToXic_WaSTe]

I have to agree, there is no point in getting an aftermarket cooler for your GPU when it's very likely damaged irreparably already. The money would be better spent going into a new card.

Honestly, unless you won't be able to upgrade to a PCIe machine sometime in the future I wouldn't even spend money on a different graphics card and just use the GeforceMX card you have.

Well i could see one reason, A quieter card, but the 9800's dont really make a lot of noise anyway. SO ill just repeat what the others say, Buy a new card, and while your investing i would go with a PCI-e AGP just doesnt cut it anymore.

[Das Capitolin]

Well i could see one reason, A quieter card, but the 9800's dont really make a lot of noise anyway. SO ill just repeat what the others say, Buy a new card, and while your investing i would go with a PCI-e AGP just doesnt cut it anymore.

Huh? WTF? Nice advice...

Go PCI-E, because your motherboard supports both AGP and PCI-E, right? Oh- it doesn't? Then kick out another $120 for a new motherboard, and don't forget to buy DDR2 RAM because it won't support your old DDR. Your CPU socket won't be compatible, so you'll have to purchase that as well. But since you are pretty much replacing everything in your computer, you shoudl consider an SATA-II hard drive. So, follow my advise and you could fix this problem for at least $600. :confused:


Instead, I think he should either:
1) Replace his card with another AGP card for under $100.
2) Save up for a while and get a whole new system. Put his GeForce 2 in his old system and give/sell it to someone else.

[ToXic_WaSTe]

Huh? WTF? Nice advice...

Go PCI-E, because your motherboard supports both AGP and PCI-E, right? Oh- it doesn't? Then kick out another $120 for a new motherboard, and don't forget to buy DDR2 RAM because it won't support your old DDR. Your CPU socket won't be compatible, so you'll have to purchase that as well. But since you are pretty much replacing everything in your computer, you shoudl consider an SATA-II hard drive. So, follow my advise and you could fix this problem for at least $600. :confused:


Instead, I think he should either:
1) Replace his card with another AGP card for under $100.
2) Save up for a while and get a whole new system. Put his GeForce 2 in his old system and give/sell it to someone else.

You can get a mobo that supports both PCI-E and AGP, sry i cant remeber where it is, but still a very good excuse to buy a new rig.. Dont know if you play a lot of games but always look at the bright side.... My AGP can compete now i have an excuse to buy a new rig, your excuse is even better, because your card is broken... :)

[werty316]

The ASRock S939 board supports both AGP and PCI-E. Maybe he doesn't have $ for a new CPU, video card, motherboard, and memory? Thats alot of coin. If he had to upgrade obviously it would be a completely new system.

[Das Capitolin]

You can get a mobo that supports both PCI-E and AGP, sry i cant remeber where it is, but still a very good excuse to buy a new rig.. Dont know if you play a lot of games but always look at the bright side.... My AGP can compete now i have an excuse to buy a new rig, your excuse is even better, because your card is broken... :)

I still think is his best option:
1) Replace his card with another AGP card for under $100.

If this is too much to spend at the moment, he should try to cool his 9800 just a bit more to see if it corrects anything.

[GIBSON]

He could underclock it to see if heat is the culprit. (instead of spending money on another cooler to find out)

[tomato]

The way I see it he's got two options:
- Replace the 9800 with another AGP card for $100 or less
- A wholesale upgrade of his system

hmmm... where have I heard that before? I think Das is on the right track here... depending on A.T.'s budget, he needs to make a choice... Of course, he could try underclocking in as GIBSON suggests, but it sounds like the 9800 is on its last legs... :(

[mousiness]

wow what a coincidence you have the EXACT same rig as my friend, what manufacturer is the card? if its an ASUS its probably faulty connection my friend had problems with connection on his asus

[A.T]

It's a powercolor radeon 9800 pro. How long after purchase did it take for your friend's issue to arrive? Mine appeared after almost 3 years. Did he fix the problem, or did it need to be repaired professionally?
I'll try talking to powercolor support, and see what they suggest, but I expect it'll end up costing me a bomb on postage.

[mousiness]

It's a powercolor radeon 9800 pro. How long after purchase did it take for your friend's issue to arrive? Mine appeared after almost 3 years. Did he fix the problem, or did it need to be repaired professionally?
I'll try talking to powercolor support, and see what they suggest, but I expect it'll end up costing me a bomb on postage.
my friends problems started about two and a half years after he bought the pc, but ASUS cards are much better cooled than powercolor 9800's so im not so sure its bad connections anymore... and he fixed it all by himself but that part im not so sure how he reconnected it though