3DMark Vantage Scores

[Methious]

The proper way to run a benchmark, which I am somewhat of an expert on, is not to ignore a capability of a piece of equipment.

Test with and without and report both. Let the nitpickers sort out the semantics.

My nitpicker detector is going off.

[typh4u]

When running a second nvidia GPU as the dedicated PhysX card does Vantage recognize it as a PhysX only processor?

[Methious]

Vantage picks it up and uses it just like a regular GPU and it still wouldn't be a submittable score.

A regular PhysX card is the same way.

[PP Mguire]

I think the only reason people dont want us using PhysX is because of camp red. If they both had it there wouldnt be a problem and we all know this. Its not cheating, its all about who gets the highest bench no matter what. Stop whining.

[Dragon]

nope thats not it in my case. its not a true measurement of GPU power. physix is an abaility should be demonstrated? yes it should be, but does it guage the power of a GPU processing power no it dont. bc it inflates the cpu score therefore inflates the gpu scoring.

[zachig]

The proper way to run a benchmark, which I am somewhat of an expert on, is not to ignore a capability of a piece of equipment.

Test with and without and report both. Let the nitpickers sort out the semantics.

My nitpicker detector is going off.

I absoluely agree! It's really not about keeping ATI people happy...If Vantage takes advantage of nVidia PhysX, why not enable/use it in the benchmark???

[Limbo]

Firstly I am no fan of ATi cards.

Vantage never took advantage of NVIDIA PhysX though, and was never meant to. Nvidia coded their drivers after the release of Vantage to change the way the benchmark worked. It was supposed to check the CPU's ability to do PhysX processing, that is why it registers higher on the CPU test when using NVIDIA PhysX. NVIDIA had their GPU's take over the job the CPU is supposed to do in the benchmark plain and simple.

If the benchmark were originally developed to test GPU PhysX, which it never was, there would be no issue. As it stands NVIDIA PhysX falsifies the CPU scores by taking the CPU completely out of the test for that portion of the benchmark and does the rendering with it's GPU. How is inflating the score meant for a particular piece of hardware by using a totally different piece of hardware to do it's job correct? The result is a false score for the CPU in the test which translates to a false overall score.

Take a look at the Vantage results with PhysX on and off, which part of it increases the most with PhysX enabled? The CPU's correct? Did you change the CPU?

I think the only reason people dont want us using PhysX is because of camp red. If they both had it there wouldnt be a problem and we all know this. Its not cheating, its all about who gets the highest bench no matter what. Stop whining.

Run that by the world's best overclockers on HWbot and see how fast you get banned.

[Methious]

I must be on the wrong site I thought this was Bjorn.

Since Windows 7 at the core is going to use Cuda and Parallel processing by HWbot's own proclamation; "Anyone using PhysX enabled Drivers = immediate ban" anyone using Win 7 and beyond should be banned.

I don't think you should compare PhysX scores with non-PhysX scores. I don't think they should be ignored because of the growing importance of parallel processing.

If you can't see that point it's cool. Turn PhysX off uninstall the software and go about your merry way. PhysX and Cuda are a fact and as long as it's a live technology we'll deal with it.

[Limbo]

Talk to FutureMark, tell them what you want tested in a benchmark. In this case Vantage was Passe shortly after it came out I guess. It was never designed to test GPU PhysX.

Hwbot made such a proclamation? I am only aware of those caught intentionally cheating to inflate scores in benchmarks being banned.

Dealing with tech is good, never said it wasn't.

[Dragon]

the technology is great, to have. and its ati fault for not continueing with it. and if companies are going to use a peticular aspect of a computer to make work even faster and or better i am all for it. I am not just an ati fanatic or nvidia i am for the one who gives me the best for my money. ans well as the most flexability. fro someone to say ATI is all bad or nvidia is all bad or visa versa definetly has not looked at both fences and understands what both can do seperetly. nvidia can learn a thing or two from ati and ati can learn a thing or two from nvidia.

[PP Mguire]

Its not cheating and Nvidia didnt do anything wrong. PhysX, Cuda, And their parrellel processing is meant to take PhysX processing off the CPU to start with. It just so happens that it does this on Vantage but it does this on games as well. Ever tried to run a PhysX heavy game with your cpu? Dosent really work that well does it. But when you have the magial Nvidia card it works fine and dosent lag cause it takes that strain off the CPU like it was originaly intended. Vantage scores being higher is just something that happens because that is what the whole deal with Nvidia cards was intended to do. Offload PhysX processing onto the GPU.

So cheating? No, the Nvidia card just has the upper hand because of the technology implemented with it end of story.

[Methious]

Straight from HWBot http://www.hwbot.org/hwbot.post.do?postId=1038

What do we consider as illegal tweaks (instant block):
- PhysX enabled drivers
- Mipmap

Since Win 7 will be driven with PhysX and Cuda drivers that utilize the GPU for parallel processing that statement would tend to exclude the OS itself.

I do talk to Futuremark, I know the top dog. I've discussed the ruling on not displaying PhysX scores but allowing them to be submitted. We discuss what we'd like tested in benchmarking.

My problem with the entire exclusion of the PhysX scores is that it is the GPU doing the work. It's doing the work of the GPU and CPU but it's the GPU doing it. I still don't think you should compare PhysX enabled scores to non-PhysX scores.

That being said I wouldn't turn it off for the PhysX games I have in house. They look a lot better with it on than off.

Talk to FutureMark, tell them what you want tested in a benchmark. In this case Vantage was Passe shortly after it came out I guess. It was never designed to test GPU PhysX.

Hwbot made such a proclamation? I am only aware of those caught intentionally cheating to inflate scores in benchmarks being banned.

Dealing with tech is good, never said it wasn't.

[Dragon]

i am curious on how/if win 7 has that ability and how to turn it on if the OS supports it. if it does add a little bit more then how do we reconize it

[Limbo]

The GPU doing the PhysX portion of the Vantage benchmark was never meant to be, any "scores" with it enabled are invalid.

An instant block of a score is not an instant ban.

Its not cheating, its all about who gets the highest bench no matter what.

Only within the confines of the benchmark as it was intended to be run.

[PP Mguire]

It was made with PhysX in mind. So how is that not intended to be run? It still a case of non PhysX users whining because we have an upper hand and they dont. If there was no Nvidia PhysX and Ageia PhysX cards did the same thing i bet those would be considerd cheating too. It is by no means cheating, it is a means of gaining a higher score. Its all benchmarking. If you cant handle that then in the words of Wiz "GTFO"