Just did my first (successful) fix for XBOX 360 having a RROD problem

[zachig]

Hope I never have to do this myself!
But if I do I'll say Thanks Zach!

I also hope you'll never face a RROD. Anyway, I really hope that my 'short' tutorials wil help people in trying to fix their XBOX 360 RROD problem.

[Dragon]

great tutorial, but i got the best fix of them all. BUY A PC and you will never face the RROD again.

[Frag Maniac]

You have to wonder with all the man hours MS spends replacing parts and/or shipping back out replacement models, why the heck they didn't just mandate such a permanent fix themselves, esp after it's become public knowledge that these can be fixed rather simply.

It's pretty sad when teenagers on the net make them look like complete idiots. I mean this is the gaming platform that sells more titles than any other, yet it's so shoddily made. They came out with a CPU and GPU revision, but still overlook the most basic of parts.

Why would they spend so much time designing and revising this system and still insist on using such crap CPU HS mounting hardware and RAM sinks? I'm beginning to think they are fully aware of the problem but don't like that using a few more screws would take a bit more assembly time and cost per unit.

[zachig]

great tutorial, but i got the best fix of them all. BUY A PC and you will never face the RROD again.

Yeah, I agree with you on that. But don't forget that I already own a good gaming rig. As I mentioned on the opening post of this thread, I mainly did this in order to play Alan Wake on the XBOX, that seems will never be released on the PC...

You have to wonder with all the man hours MS spends replacing parts and/or shipping back out replacement models, why the heck they didn't just mandate such a permanent fix themselves, esp after it's become public knowledge that these can be fixed rather simply.

It's pretty sad when teenagers on the net make them look like complete idiots. I mean this is the gaming platform that sells more titles than any other, yet it's so shoddily made. They came out with a CPU and GPU revision, but still overlook the most basic of parts.

Why would they spend so much time designing and revising this system and still insist on using such crap CPU HS mounting hardware and RAM sinks? I'm beginning to think they are fully aware of the problem but don't like that using a few more screws would take a bit more assembly time and cost per unit.

Yeah, microsoft did a huge mistake by refusing at teh beginning to get consoles back for repair, and even when they did, I'm not sure how good and permanent was their fix.

But...don't forget that even my 'ultimate' fix is not neccessarily permanent. From what I've heard/read, most of the people that applied the same fix I did, got their RROD again withing the next few weeks, months...or year (if you're lucky enough).

The only permanent fix should be reflowing of the solder below the GPU and CPU BGA (Ball Grip Array) chips using a solder reflowing machine that costs more than 70k and I'm not even sure that's what microsoft was doing when fixing the consoles...

[Frag Maniac]

Yeah, microsoft did a huge mistake by refusing at teh beginning to get consoles back for repair, and even when they did, I'm not sure how good and permanent was their fix.

But...don't forget that even my 'ultimate' fix is not neccessarily permanent. From what I've heard/read, most of the people that applied the same fix I did, got their RROD again withing the next few weeks, months...or year (if you're lucky enough).

The only permanent fix should be reflowing of the solder below the GPU and CPU BGA (Ball Grip Array) chips using a solder reflowing machine that costs more than 70k and I'm not even sure that's what microsoft was doing when fixing the consoles...

Well anyway you cut it, they're not made very well. I've heard some people say a simple LT cooler can go long way toward avoiding RROD, but I'm not sure I buy that a 70k reflowing machine is necessary. Lots of people have gotten them to re-solder just with the towel trick, and it wouldn't even be necessary if MS hadn't made them so crappy in the first place.

On a side note, I've got a friend with a PS3, the model just previous to the latest, it has the curved sides. We were setting up his new HT system and when we plugged it, the PS3 and his DLP TV in, all of a sudden his TV wouldn't come on. Then he tried plugging the TV into the other outlet of the wall jack and the TV came on.

We were getting lots of freeze ups that he'd never had before while playing Rock Band though, so then he tried plugging the TV into another wall jack. Now everything works fine. This has me wondering if lots of the remarks some make about their PS3s lagging, stuttering, and freezing has to do with the wall jack they're using being overloaded.

Granted our apt building is not exactly well made. I used to work for the building's management and one day I was using an electrical outlet in their electrical equipment room and blew a circuit breaker with a simple low power hand drill on an extension cord. Turns out it blew because the outlet circuit was mistakenly put on the same circuit as the fire alarm system.

Fire alarm systems by code are supposed to be on a dedicated circuit. I suspect maybe even our apt wiring isn't up to code. They may have used 10 gage wiring for the outlets instead of 12.

[zachig]

I'd never do the 'towel trick' as it can overheat the whole console and damage it.

I've heard about people with the towel trick, but I think there are better solutions to be used at home (without having to buy a soldering station for 70k) like the heat gun trick.

I forgot to mention that it addition to the fixes I've mentioned above, I've also heated the board a bit Since I didn't have a heat gun, I've used hair dryer and semi-blocked it's intake opening, so the elements inside will get hotter.

I didn't have a thermometer in hand, but I assume I manage to heat the chips for almost 200C. I'm not sure if it did something, as usually the melting point of solder points is at least 230C-240C. But hey...the console is working now.

[Dragon]

for a overheating RROD fix, think of it like a computer and fix it appropriately. problem with these "So Called Fixes" around the net is, the are based on NOOBs (lack of a better word) who have no real clue on how to properly fix a overheating unit.

on the Air/Water block modification I did to my roommates Xcrack 360, was approached like a computer over heating problem and fixed appropriately.

[zachig]

for a overheating RROD fix, think of it like a computer and fix it appropriately. problem with these "So Called Fixes" around the net is, the are based on NOOBs (lack of a better word) who have no real clue on how to properly fix a overheating unit.

on the Air/Water block modification I did to my roommates Xcrack 360, was approached like a computer over heating problem and fixed appropriately.

Yeah, an appropriate fix should definitely include a good Air Cooling, if not even Watercooling. The RROD was in first place caused by overheating.

But, one should first fix the solder connections of the BGA chip either by solder reflowing or pressing hard on the chip (what I did) by using screws attached to the XBOX chassis.

Then, I'd say a good air cooling or watercooling, will definitely keep the XBOX 360 running cool, preventing from the RROD problem to occur again.

[Frag Maniac]

Yeah I'm sure there's better fixes out there, but one has to stop and ponder first if a 360 is even worthy of the expense of WC. I'd probably be done with it at that point and move on to a PS3.

As for the towel trick, of course there are risks, but you CAN do it safely if you have a good digital thermometer handy and place a couple of it's thermistor probes on the CPU/GPU.

[zachig]

Yeah I'm sure there's better fixes out there, but one has to stop and ponder first if a 360 is even worthy of the expense of WC.

Who said that a 360 worthy of the expense of WC...

I know A LOT of people investing hundreds of bucks on WC their gaming PC, and in some case their whole rig is cheaper than their WC setup.

Those who deal with WC (I used to...) not always think if it's worthy or not, they mainly Watercool, just for the fun in doing so...

As for the towel trick, of course there are risks, but you CAN do it safely if you have a good digital thermometer handy and place a couple of it's thermistor probes on the CPU/GPU.

Yeah, you can do that. But the same applies to the heat gun. In my opinion, the safest way is a combination of heat gun and a good handy thermometer...

[Dragon]

my roomy wanted to keep his xbox cool, and also wanted something to brag about. his set up was about 180 for the two blocks rad pump and hoses. the biggest thing he was worried about was getting the RROD from overheating, then send the unit off to micrsoft and get it fixed. that process takes about 6 - 10 weeks. during that time he is out of a box. so for him it was worth it to go water too keep that from ever happening.

[Frag Maniac]

Who said that a 360 worthy of the expense of WC...

I was referring to this comment from Dragon, and assumed he meant it was modded to WC.

on the Air/Water block modification I did to my roommates Xcrack 360, was approached like a computer over heating problem and fixed appropriately.

In retrospect, I could see how it could have been meant as a fan mod on the existing cooler, which is a vacuum sealed evaporative water type.

However, it appears I was right...

my roomy wanted to keep his xbox cool, and also wanted something to brag about. his set up was about 180 for the two blocks rad pump and hoses.

Although I still have to wonder if a 360 is worthy of even a $180 WC setup. It's a great price for a PC WC system, but 360s are cheap and poorly made, so WC at ANY price is a "Hmm,...is this worthwhile" venture.

BTW Dragon, what size rads and fans did you use on that setup? A couple Corsair H50 sealed kits would have been cheaper and easier maybe, but then you'd still have to get a couple 120mm fans and figure out where to mount them.

Somehow I can't picture any WC setup for a 360 being neat and tidy, but this one I found looks amazing: http://www.xbox-scene.com/xbox1data/...lllHlcrxQY.php

It doesn't say what temps he got, I am skeptical how well one 90mm rad would cool both the CPU and GPU. AFAIK they're pretty small compared to PC processors though.

[Dragon]

He ended up going with 2 koolance 340's a swifty dual 120 rad and a stainlessstell cookine jar for a res with a 170 submerisble pump.

if he ever gets off his dead butt and finishes his chassis it would look loads cleaner

[Frag Maniac]

So he's building a whole new case for it then? Isn't that a bit hard to do since MS has sensors all over to detect modding?

[Dragon]

at most they can detect the fan speed.