Serpentine Belt "Chirps" when Driving

[CDsDontBurn]

My car in question is a 1997 Ford Thunderbird 4.6L v8.

Back Story:
For most of last year I was technically living in two places at the same time while I was working at PowerColor. I would stay with my aunt during the week and then go to my mother in law's to be with my daughter and fiancee for the weekend. Story behind that, but I'm not getting into that here. Anyways, the drive from PowerColor to my mother in laws was 2hrs / 110 miles long.

Over the summer, the serpentine belt decided to snap while driving to my mother in law's house and I had to pull over and left it overnight at a rest area until the following day when I replaced the belt. I thought everything was fine after replacing the belt, but I immediately noticed that there was a "chirping" noise once I installed the new belt which was not noticeable before with the old belt.

Troubleshooting already done

• Removed the belt and reinstalled it thinking that I missed a groove / tooth when I installed the belt the first time
• I have sprayed the crap out of idler and tensioner pulleys with WD-40 thinking it would be a bad pulley

What is most likely the cause of the chirping noise?

• The tensioner or idler pulley?
• An improperly installed belt even though I've already removed it and put it back on?
• A miss-aligned pulley system?
• Something else?

The videos below are ones I came across. The first video is one I came across yesterday and based on what it said, I hadn't even thought about it being misaligned pulleys! That makes me wonder if that could be the problem. But, I'm not sure why it would have happened with the new belt and not with the old belt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9qMtVVLXeY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSTZdTAB_As

[Joshua_Mahr]

Bad bearing most likely in the tensioner pulley. If not in one of the idlers maybe. Not sure how many it has.

[CDsDontBurn]

A bad bearing is what I was thinking originally, and that's why I was going to replace both the idler and tensioner pulleys. However, after watching those videos I listed below, it got me wondering if that was really the problem.

Here's a diagram of the pulleys. And a couple of pictures of the snapped belt when it happened.



CS = Crank Shaft
1 = Water Pump
2 = Power Steering Pump
3 = Tensioner Pulley
4 = AC Compressor
5 = Idler Pulley
6 = Alternator

[PP Mguire]

+1 to tensioner.

[CDsDontBurn]

According to the "Eric The Car Guy" video up top, if the idler or tensioner pulleys have any give side to side, then that pulley has to go. I went and tested this a few minutes ago, and the idler pulley has some give.

[PP Mguire]

Honestly, I would rent the pulley tools from Autozone (if you don't have them) and replace the idler and tension pulleys together.

[CDsDontBurn]

Already bought both pulleys . Hopefully that's all that needs replacing for this.

So much more stuff needs to go into this car. I was looking under the hood and a lot of the vacuum hoses need to be replaced. A lot of them are even building up grease around the openings, so those are going next. I'll probably do spark plugs as well when I replace those.

I also need to clean out the MAF sensor as well.

Ugh, so much work needs to be done on this car and it's not cheap to get these parts. Parts for my Accord are cheaper!

[PP Mguire]

4.6 Ford? Parts are stupid cheap man. 2 bucks a pop for spark plugs, 17 for each pulley, hoses are a couple of bucks if you just cut them yourself.

Thing will run a ridiculously long time if it's just taken care of on a regular basis. I've seen some do over 300k miles. I have a 3.8 in my Mustang and just had to do the same thing you are doing. My reason was because the mass air plastic piece fell on to the AC belt. I had to zip tie it up, which makes like the 12th zip tie holding something on the front end of my car
So when I was replacing the belt I just decided to replace the pulleys.

[CDsDontBurn]

4.6 Ford? Parts are stupid cheap man. 2 bucks a pop for spark plugs, 17 for each pulley, hoses are a couple of bucks if you just cut them yourself.

Thing will run a ridiculously long time if it's just taken care of on a regular basis. I've seen some do over 300k miles. I have a 3.8 in my Mustang and just had to do the same thing you are doing. My reason was because the mass air plastic piece fell on to the AC belt. I had to zip tie it up, which makes like the 12th zip tie holding something on the front end of my car
So when I was replacing the belt I just decided to replace the pulleys.

Parts are cheaper for my 3L Accord! These same parts I'm getting for the T-Bird would cost me 1/3 the price for my Accord, haha. And everybody knows that Hondas run for-ev-er, lol. Though I do agree with you on regular maintenance making a care last forever as well.

I picked up hoses upper / lower for $12 and $19, idler pulley was $14, tensioner pulley was $30 (got the whole thing not just the pulley), thermostat was $18, the O-Ring for the thermostat was $3, and I also bought two hood struts @ $13/ea as the ones on the car have now failed and the hood needs to be held up with a baseball bad. That's so annoying and ghetto at the same time IMO. Everything just added up quick! It didn't help that since everything is getting shipped from various warehouses that shipping total cost was $30. That part sucked. Thought I was getting a decent deal until I got dinged with the shipping costs, lol.

I was also thinking of doing the MAF right now as well, but the cheapest one I could find was $60 and I only have a $150 budget to spend right now on the car. The extra money that's left over for this is likely going to go in to buying engine coolant, and those are $10 each and I'll likely end up getting 3 of them.

So, all those little costs here and there just add up. It's no bueno dude. No bueno!

[PP Mguire]

I guess it depends on your year and exact model, but the belt tensioner for a 2000 Accord EX is 26 bucks more than for the 4.6. Sparks are the same, belt is more on the 4.6, but it's also for a V8 instead of a V6.

Why did you pay shipping? All you had to do is go to Autozone and give them the part number of each piece you want in the morning and by later that afternoon they would have all parts there from their warehouse. Could have had the parts same day and no shipping cost

I wouldn't replace the thermo until you flush the whole coolant system out. If there is gunk in the system then it will just gunk up the new thermostat. On that note, you don't need a whole lot of anti-freeze. If your temps never go below freezing then you only need about 1/4 coolant and the rest water. Unless you're buying that specialized stuff that Jay Leno promotes.

Mass air shouldn't have to be replaced. If anything replace the air filter if needed and don't forget an oil change if it hasn't been done yet.

[CDsDontBurn]

Aside from a few items, like the tensioner pulley and NGK spark plugs that are required, just about every other equivalent component is significantly cheaper. This is on the average though, since I know there will be the component here and there that is more expensive on the Accord than on the T-Bird.

As for why I paid for shipping, www.rockauto.com. It's a website that keeps getting brought up in all the Honda and T-Bird forums I frequent. So, I decided to give them a shot this time around. I think after shipping, I ended up spending about the same amount for everything as I would have if I had just gone down to an AutoZone or NAPA. As for the parts being there same day, I know. But, I couldn't really work on this during the week and everything seems to be coming in tomorrow and Friday.

That's a good idea on the thermostat. I also want to flush out the radiator, but I'm not sure how to do that bit. Not sure I know how to properly flush out the coolant system without the appropriate tools though. As for how much anti-freeze, I like to use the Prestone 50/50 pre-mixed stuff. While it is convenient that it is pre-mixed, I don't buy it for that. I buy it primarily for the fact that I don't have to use tap water as tap water will eventually erode all of the engine's internal coolant system components over time. This prestone stuff doesn't do that.

The reason why I am considering the MAF is because my car is throwing a P01701 and P01702 which is left and right side o2 sensors are "bad". According to what I've read on the T-Bird forums, it may just need a simple cleaning of the MAF as it may be dirty. It could also be a vacuum hose is bad as well. I could agree with the vacuum hoses being bad as those are now old and they appear to be leaking? All I know is that there has been oil residue building up over some of the hoses over time now. Not sure if that's what bad vacuum hoses mean, but that's what's happening with the car's engine.

[PP Mguire]

Aside from a few items, like the tensioner pulley and NGK spark plugs that are required, just about every other equivalent component is significantly cheaper. This is on the average though, since I know there will be the component here and there that is more expensive on the Accord than on the T-Bird.

As for why I paid for shipping, www.rockauto.com. It's a website that keeps getting brought up in all the Honda and T-Bird forums I frequent. So, I decided to give them a shot this time around. I think after shipping, I ended up spending about the same amount for everything as I would have if I had just gone down to an AutoZone or NAPA. As for the parts being there same day, I know. But, I couldn't really work on this during the week and everything seems to be coming in tomorrow and Friday.

That's a good idea on the thermostat. I also want to flush out the radiator, but I'm not sure how to do that bit. Not sure I know how to properly flush out the coolant system without the appropriate tools though. As for how much anti-freeze, I like to use the Prestone 50/50 pre-mixed stuff. While it is convenient that it is pre-mixed, I don't buy it for that. I buy it primarily for the fact that I don't have to use tap water as tap water will eventually erode all of the engine's internal coolant system components over time. This prestone stuff doesn't do that.

The reason why I am considering the MAF is because my car is throwing a P01701 and P01702 which is left and right side o2 sensors are "bad". According to what I've read on the T-Bird forums, it may just need a simple cleaning of the MAF as it may be dirty. It could also be a vacuum hose is bad as well. I could agree with the vacuum hoses being bad as those are now old and they appear to be leaking? All I know is that there has been oil residue building up over some of the hoses over time now. Not sure if that's what bad vacuum hoses mean, but that's what's happening with the car's engine.

Specific plugs aren't required on cars, just certain cars run better on certain plugs. That goes all the way down to the classic cars too. I had to run Autolite double plat in my old 68 Mustang instead of Bosch or else it would run like ****. I thought it was weird, but just how it was. Most Jap cars run best with NKG, but it isn't required.

As for Rockauto, it appears most of their prices are slightly cheaper but shipping negates that. Obviously, I'm only looking at parts for the cars I own. Everybody has their preference of purchase for anything. I just hate waiting on shipping for anything and usually if I need a part (and actually have the money) then it's a necessity and needs replacing now.

There is the easy way, and there is the proper way. The proper way is messy, time consuming, and you need to Google for each particular engine. The easy way is just like doing a computer water loop. This is why I said, don't waste money on anti-freeze because this can get costly. You have to drain the system by removing the valve on the bottom of the radiator (or remove the bottom hose which will make it all gush out in like 2 minutes and make a mess) and wait for the system to completely drain. Then take a garden hose and fill the radiator up backwards to flush any crap out. You can let it flow out of the cap, or let it flow out of the overflow if the car has one. You also need to take the therm housing off and at least one of the heater hoses. Take a garden hose and basically blast each area until you see clean water flowing. When you do this, you better hope rad stop leak was never used or you'll get nasty stuff all over the ground, engine, yourself, and engine compartment. Rad stop leak likes to take a hotel stay in the heater core and when you blast it all this black stuff comes out (I recommend never to use rad stop leak as it eats up your coolant system).
Once you're done you need to hook the hoses back up (minus heater core outlet) and leave the thermostat housing off and start filling the system up (if using anti-freeze you would need to use it here, and a lot of cash basically hits the ground). Let water run out until the whole system has pretty much all the air out. Then put your new thermo on, hook the heater hose back up and you should be good to go. Fill it the rest of the way up and let it run for a while with the cap off to let the remaining air out. I did this with my 68 and a 2001 Cavalier and worked like a charm.
I imagine the proper way is to take everything off and out then use proper cleaning materials (seafoam comes to mind). When I got my 68 Mustang it had been sitting for about 6 years and there was a mass amount of nasty stuff all in the coolant system. The garden hose trick worked, and after all the stupid rad stop leak stuff came out my heater worked! Go figure.

On the anti-freeze thing, anything you put in there will corrode because it has water in it. 50/50 pre-diluted still uses demineralized water which still has corrosive properties. Unless you can afford to buy Evans waterless coolant which has absolutely no corrosive properties then filling all the way up a green coolant car is a waste. I have used 25/75 in our Cavalier and it's going on 300k itself and it's a Dexcool system. I would use straight water but without 25% anti-freeze 2 things happen. The water evaporates in the summer slightly and has the possibility to free in the winter here. 25% rids the opportunity of either, and one gallon has lasted us over a year with no issues. Again, personal preference, but I got the coolant advice from my mechanic friend who restores classic cars in his own shop.

On the oil with the vac hoses, that I have no idea. I actually have the same problem on her Cavalier but it has no vac leaks. The worst area appears to be the PCV valve on the valve cover. When she had random stalling problems I had to take her TB apart and clean it. It and the rest of the intake was covered in oil. After cleaning it all, replacing the filter, PCV valve, hose, and intake box it stopped doing that. I still get some slight oil coming out though.

[CDsDontBurn]

On both Accord forums I'm on, 6thgenaccord and DriveAccord, EVERYBODY says that NGK or Denso are the only plugs to use. People who have used any other brand plug, AutoLite, Bosch, etc. have claimed that the engines suffer from things such as low MPGs, all the way upto pinging and knocking. So, I'd say yes, NGK / Denso plugs are required .

The lower prices is why I went with RockAuto. I just wasn't expecting shipping to be so much. And like I said, I won't be doing this work on the T-Bird until at least next weekend at the earliest so it's not like I'm in a hurry to get this done, which is why I could wait on shipping. Definitely though, if this were an emergency, I would have hit up my local AutoZone or NAPA store.

I've always had a general idea of how to properly flush the engine block, but have never actually done it myself. I have however done radiators before, so I know about the bleeder valve at the bottom of the radiator . It's also good practice to remove the rad cap when opening up the bleeder valve as that will make the coolant flow out much more quickly. OH, and I also agree with your analogy of it being like a PC's water cooling loop, haha.

Regarding the antifreeze thing, the prestone 50/50 is basically what Honda used before they moved over to their new solution in 2008 which is some blue antifreeze. I know that after reading about it, that the prestone 50/50 doesn't have the corrosive properties as other coolants out there. The worst is using 100% antifreeze mixed with tap water to make a 50/50 solution. The best way to make your own 50/50 mix antifreeze solution is by using distilled water...just like in a PC's water cooling loop .

I'll have to look into the oil on the hoses. Hopefully it's just an issue of old hoses, lol.

[PP Mguire]

People claim different things, I've seen different things. Every car group has different preferences like getting specific brands for Mustangs and whatnot. The people with severe engine problems from a spark plug (think about what exactly it does for a second) probably didn't gap them properly or something else.

Yea I already knew to open the cap, I forgot to mention that because it was 4am when I typed that up and I haven't had any sleep for a couple days. Insomnia is kicking me hard.

Anything with water will be corrosive. You can Google that if you like, and it's why Jay Leno (or any other smart car collector) uses non-water based coolant in their collector cars. Since I don't have a 100 grand car I prefer too keep mine as cool as it can, and nothing beats water with its cooling properties. Little green to keep the chill off and I'm good. Of course, everybody has their preferences like I said. I was just putting that out there because pouring 20 bucks worth of coolant just to hit the ground isn't my cup of tea. I also use tap water mixed with isopropyl in my PC water loop, but I don't really care too much about that as water parts are relatively cheap now. It keeps the crud out.

[CDsDontBurn]

I got the tensioner pulley today as well as the top radiator hose in today. Still waiting on everything else.

I did stop by my local autozone today though to pick up the coolant, engine degreaser and an air filter for the car.

Now, I just need the time to get this all done! Probably won't happen until next week.